frizzellr, did you have a bad experence with a 30-30 or something? They way the guns are made now and days they are very safe, if you know how to use them.

and whats this brush busting thing you have been talking about? I heard you guys say before say a light fast moving bullet will deflect less than a heavy slow moving bullet? So a 17 grain .17HMR will deflect less than a 1 ounce slug would?

Guns cause crime, like flies cause garbage.