Yea, thosen's are nice too....spent a lot of time looking at them myself. I do like the feel of that thumbhole/pistol grip on the 870's and benelli's though... I think Mossberg is doing it now too. The only thing that shyed me away from the Win's 2 years ago when I bought my 11-87 was the fact that the stock comb seemed low, and I like to havemy Leuppy 1-4xscope on mine, and Remington builds some of their SPS-T's with a higher comb for that purpose. I'll spend money somehow though...[&:]