RE: 4x4 or 8pt
I guess it depends where your from. I have a lot of hunting buddies down south in fla and some in N.C. as well as washington state. Some of my friends in washington don't count the brow tines. Some of my other friends in fla will count anything you can hang a ring from and call them by the number of all the points onboth side.
When I talk to people , I say its a 5x5, or an 8x5 (wishing) and let them do the math, regardless if a whitetail or a mulie. By doing that, most people now what I'm talking about.
Bobby