The proof will be in the pudding so to speak when the kill numbers are released in the spring. I really expect a huge decline in NY, not because of a lack of doe permits but because of alack in deer numbers. There are of course some pockets that still have abundant herds, but as long as NY keeps chunking out the doe permits in those areas it'll change. PLUS, the CWD in Oneida county should really put a hurt there. I come from a long line of very good hunters. I mean, we always get a LOT of deer. My brother and his gang typically shoot 15-20 bucks. I think they have 3 this year. My one nephew and his son always limit out. This year they have a couple does and one nice 10 point. My other nephew usually limits out...he's come up dry. My other 2 nephews usually limit out, one has 2, etc etc etc. My highschool buddies are quite prolific when it comes to killing. None of the 3 has a deer or saw a buck to shoot. Admittedly 2 of them don't hunt that much but the other does throughout the Northern and Southern Tier. I talked to some locals I usually bow hunt with in NY. One guy who limits out EVERY year has zero deer at last report. Need I go on. These folks are hunting from Boonville to Bainbridge. My brother himself has taken well over 300 deer, and when he isn't seeing deer you better worry NY. We'll see when the reports come out. Of course they'll come up with all sorts of reasons why the counts are down in efforts to cover their butts.