atlasman, i would love to see the report. You know since i been there I never saw a buck in Northern NY, of course up there if it has antlers, even spikes it is fair game. And you are right, you can get one with muzzle loader, one with bow, one with gun, and if you are lucky or have land, you can get two permits for does! And that does not include using last years tag to shoot anything! Yes, I think about time the get new game managers at state. Really would like to see the report though where they mention it! [:@]