UP....I agree. And as far as my deer go....I have shot a pile of them that make Pope and young. I hunt with a bow mostly, and I don't pay for my deer, I hunt close to home. Big mature bucks here top out at between 130 and 160", and I have a bunch of those. But I'm not bragging. Mine aren't in any book. I'm just completely sick and tired of hearing about this stupid deer.