thanks for responding , yes i am getting exellent accuracy and consistancy out of the shockwaves was just wondering why they werent opening up? Was wondering if it was due to not having and hydrolic expansion as they would going through blood or tissues instead of wood. have tried the barnes mz expanders and they load way to hard for my encore was going to try the spitfire expanders ther are suppose to bea little easier to load vs the mz expanders. Or does anyone have any other suggestions as far as sabots and powed loads with them. thanks