12 if pretty low. I have gotten busted at 20 earlier this year by a small eight. The tree I was in did not have any back drop and I stood out like a sore thumb. Find some cover brother if you are going to be that low. The tree I hunt now I had a doe look right up at me after she smelled my flashlight that fell on the ground. I closed my eyes and she carried on like it was no buddies business. She was looking at me and I was looking at me for a good minute and I just sat there. Good luck