Moonage: I've stayed clear of this subject on this forum and quite a few others to see where certain posters would go with this. It is quite evident that there are some who generally tout one particular manufacturer and try to spin the truth about performance characteristics. I don't have to promote the MZE, it does extremely well on its on.

You, et al, seem to promote certain products even when the subject specifically centers around the merits of another product. I can surely bring up instances but that would make this post way too lengthy.

You stated "Len I am just curious why an exchange for another product is bad?" Please don't misinterpret me. To reiterate: "Does it take a rocket scientist to figure out which guarantee is better?" I DIDN'T say it would be bad, just that a monetary exchange would be better. It allows the customer to make a decision to buy whatever product from whatever manufacturer they so desire. It is not, 'I've got your money and you have to buy one of my other products until you find one you like!'

Also, the GKF guarantee is a "Limited Lifetime Guarantee". You stated that it is a "lifetime" guarantee and that is wrong. What does the fine print detail??

When you stated that "The main thing is that as a consumer you have choices....", you couldn't be more true. At least the Muzzy 30 day money back guarantee gives you the choice to choose another manufacturer's rest. That may even wind up being a GKF product; but, at least you have the choice. Does the GKF guarantee allow the customer to choose another company's product - NO!

Then you seemed to end with the statement, "In the end this forum is a place for helping others and to offer advice. Lets just keep it at that and not sling darts about which is better or who does what better. Lets just state the facts and specs & then people can decide what they like." I think my record shows that I do help others a lot on this and other forums to understand the technical aspect of products. If you're referring to my questioning of Rob02's comment, it is a very straightforward question about a comment pertaining to technical aspects of a product. What is wrong with asking someone to explain their comments?

And, why should or would I want to debate with you? Remember, you said, and I agree, that we have to present people with facts; these facts should be based upon having properly evaluated different products. I have done my evaluation and presented my findings here and elsewhere. All I've seen from you and many others is opinion that is not based on having done a thorough evaluation of each product. I totally understand that everyone can't afford to purchase each and every product for an indepth evaluation which should not be limited to anything less than destructive testing. I, however, have done this sort of testing due to the fact that I have to convince my customers to buy certain products and want them to trust my evaluation.

There was a thread not to long ago that pointed out that many will buy a product and rave about it initially. If they have problems at a later date, they hardly ever come back on to expound on the negatives. Then there are those who will rave about a product because they may be somehow connected to the manufacturer. I know that there are some manufacturers who actually have 'followers' who will continuously get on the forums to tout their products.

Have a nice day and a great hunting season.