maybe i need to correct myself. the 70 yard group was in a 5" group with the tricks and where i said, but only a 3 arrow group. normally when i practice from 70 yards with field tips none of the 12 or so arrows i shoot will be more than 5" from the bullzeye, and i think that makes it a 10" group. most of them end up in about a 5" group, but not all of them. i started thinking about that and realized i had said something that wasn't correct about my normal field tip shooting ability.