thanks john...good luck to your camp too......we stay away from all places for breakfast.......mondays we go to the bowling alley and eat diner and watch some football...but other than that we eat at camp..........i think there is still a chance at dmps.....last year my friends dad put in for a permit that was out east....the % was low and he was denied...however when the extra permits came out there were some left for that area...figure that... so maybe there is a chance....but ihunt bow, ml, and reg season so i have 4 tags to fill which is plenty for me........i did get a permit for the bethany area (near bativia)....im just ready to huntin.........