...well, to add some more fuel to this fire... and, keep in mind this is just my opinion..... I firmly believe the 223 can kill deer..if the shot is perfectly placed, and the range is close enough. I also believe that if any ONE little thing goes wrong, you've wounded a deer so it can go off and die a lingering, painful death... you just don't have that problem with a 30-30. It has been perfected to do basically just one thing....kill deer. Its bullets have been designed and refined to mushroom dependably at 30-30 velocities, and the rifles have been made with carryability in mind. Out to 100yds, there is probably not a better deer cartridge in existance..anywhere.. Some are perhaps equal, but NONE better. Over 100yds, I believe it surrenders its "best" status, but it is still very good. Beyond 150-165 yds I believe it is beginning to fall into the not quite so good category. ..but it's still 10 times the deer rifle a 223 is. That's the way I see it...

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness..those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Santayana