well i have a slight problem grouping at 20 fellows. i had a group of 3, the size of a 50 cent piece at 20. but, then i had a new Alpine quiver put on, and it mounts in the same hole as my sites. so of course i had to take my sites off to get it on. i also put on a kisser button. now i have no group at all and its only a week and a half til season starts.