thanks david i will try that and yes sir i am shooting from the palm not from the thumb pad, will try and shoot from the pad on my next outting, what is this simms thing you are talking about here and where can it be purchased at? and yes sir my dl is correct, im actually a 31 in shooter from fingers, but my release gives me an extra in and i have a good anchor point, knuckle of the thumb fits right in the hole under the ear, works great for me. thanks much.