Thank you Eric, I just may try that. I have also heard some great things about those new Stinger two bladed heads. It sure seems like there is a lot of nice people on this site willing to share their expertise, and I appreciate it. Today at a stop light while practicing grunting with a mouth diaphram, I looked at the car next to me just in time to see three people staring and laughing completely out of control, oh well I guess if I made their day a little better that's the main thing.....Joe