The reason I only told you half of the story is because it's just to much for this space. And also just to keep from sounding like a cry baby. But I think there ought to be a place to get a non-bais opion on these outfitters,I think it would help the whole industry. You know like a outfitters rating service,what do you think? And as far as not using and outfitter, it's the first time I've ever hunted elk. Trust me I would attempt to play football with out at least watching one game. Everybody's got to learn some where. Thank's guy's for the advice.