Phade, I hope you know I wasnt singling you out, or Dobbins, for that matter, just using the example. I personally dont agree with their logic. I know, theyre the "experts" and Im not. But, I form my opinions based on what I see, and I still say that it really varies from area to area. Theres guys in the midwestern states that say they havent seen or caught a red in YEARS once the coyotes moved in. Quite a difference from here. My friends 200 reds vs 40 coyotes speaks volumes to me...This has been a fun topic to debate and ruminate!