James B - Wasnt tryin to wind you up , just pokin some fun at you. We both know that we agreed to disagree long ago on small/medium calibers usefullness when you go north of deer on the size chart. But Shatos point of "use the 270 cause its a flat shootin SOB" mentality doesnt hold water. I also know recoil is a big factor for you and that is the one legitimate knock on the big guns as I see it. And the big guns DO kill more efficiently, not to say the mid to small calibers cant do the job. However a 270 handloaded w/ heavy Barnes will probably do better than $8 a box 140gr 30-06 on elk. Range is an important factor as well. A 300yd shot is MUCH more realistic than a 400yd. The chances of a hunter being 100%, ABSOLUTELY, GAURANTEED, hitting EXACTLY where he's aiming go down quicklyafter 250yds.