bearklr i agree that "scouting" has to be done. and with the low number of deer it is the only way to "hunt". and this all works great if you are the only one in the area. but guess what your never the only one in the woods. and after the first day or two most patterns are out the door. i have harvested well over a hundred deer over the years and i didn't do it sitting on a stump. so i think you guys got me mixed up with someone from your dreams. anymore the deer hunting has started to remind me of turkey hunting. being that when the word gets out that some deer have been spotted in an area the hunters come out in groups. maybe some of you guys are happy getting a deer every few years but i actually shoot them to eat not just to end their life. or to be thrown in the freezer just to be put in the garbage can the following fall.