hiawatha it's me. i also never said the .17 was not a fine gun. is just not made for what some of these guys and you are using it for. so i am not wrong. if you don"t believe what i am telling you guys maybe you should check into a magazine called GUNS & AMMO. i'm sure you have heard of them right. they have been around only 40 years. they state that the .17 is great for animals of rabbit size or smaller. shooting anything bigger than that is irresponsible. maybe you should contact them and tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. i'm sure they will understand. oh ya about being on the board longer. your not thinking that this is my first name or go around here do ya.[:'(][:'(][:'(]