One thing that may have gotten lost in all the smoke and boloney spread through the "70 grain Triple Shock for .223" thread is the fact that the fast twists will very often shoot the lighter bullets well - but the slow twists will never work with a long heavy bullet. One of the most accurate bullets in many 1:9 twist .223's is the 50 grain V-Max. The "ideal" twist for a 50 grain bullet may be around 1:15 - but the results speak for themselves. Don' be afraid to try any factory load with a bullet weight of 77 grains or less. And for varmint hunting, I would stick with 50 or 55 grain fast-expanding bullets.