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Old 08-10-2004, 09:14 PM   #11
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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Of course, As I sit here all my 4" offset/helical feather fletched ACCs are hitting the same spot at 30 yards, so the point may be moot, but I' m bored and feel like discussing something
If one is hitting the same spot with 2 spins, one could not see the logic in investing more energy into the spin.
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:32 AM   #12
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

The spin isn't always needed IMO....but it sure doesn't hurt.

For the same reason the quick spins work...the Turbos work better once you get them tuned in.

They can widen the window of arrow choice pertinent to spine. A normaly slightly underspined arrow will work as the speed of the spin from the Turbo stabilizes it much quicker.

They can cover up minor flaws in a shot. One of thise that you let go and immedietly wish you'd have let down to start over...can still be an X sometimes. More forgiving due to the high RPMs

CROSSWIND! I did a 3D shoot here locally and there was one shot ranged at 52 yards, open grass and there was a 25MPH crosswind that day. I shot 2 arrows....
one was a 370 Grain Carbon Force with a 100 grain tip and 4" offset Duravanes and the other was the same arrow, same length, same tip with a Turbo Nock.

The Vaned arrow I aimed 18-20" and the arrow traveled 24-26".
The Turbo only traveled 14-16"...quite a difference.
The Turbo Nocked arrow was 25 grains heavier....that may have had a bit to do with it but not enough to believe that weight was the major factor.

For indoor, 20 yards, contoled environment shots...you can tape 3 peices of a McDonalds Straw to the end and you can shoot.

Outside in the weather and elements and unknown distances...I'll shoot he highest RPM arrow I can find and that's why I'll stick with the Turbos.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:27 AM   #13
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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I shot 2 arrows....
one was a 370 Grain Carbon Force with a 100 grain tip and 4" offset Duravanes and the other was the same arrow, same length, same tip with a Turbo Nock.
---

The Turbo Nocked arrow was 25 grains heavier...
You mean Turbo nocks outweigh 3, 4" vanes and a standard nock by 25 grains?? If you don't mind my asking, what's the FOC for those two arrows?
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:52 AM   #14
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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The Turbo Nocked arrow was 25 grains heavier....that may have had a bit to do with it but not enough to believe that weight was the major factor.
Some spin is always needed in weather to stop float or glide: how much? Verify for the arrow used.

All drift on any weight in weather will depend on the ratio of, the area of exposure & the weight of the object. To evaluate the disparity one would need a wind tunnel with consistent speed.

Trajectories & stability can change by adding weight to the end of an arrow.

One dose not wish to set up a bow near critical points, where small differences will show up on target; such as one foot being slightly lower or the bow grip with minute dissimilarity etc.

These Critical Points & Trajectories should be adjusted (stabilized) before the hunt.
One would always want to verify Trajectories & arrow erratics after adding several grains of weight to one end of the arrow. It may fly to a different spot.
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:08 PM   #15
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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You mean Turbo nocks outweigh 3, 4" vanes and a standard nock by 25 grains?? If you don't mind my asking, what's the FOC for those two arrows?
Don't know the FOC Art....irrelevant to me. They fly straight and hit where I aim. Arrow flight is good although I never bothered to paper tune them.

Dwaasp...I didn't understand a thing you said brother. [:-]
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:11 PM   #16
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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Dwaasp...I didn't understand a thing you said brother.

LOL, me either.
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:26 PM   #17
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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If one is hitting the same spot with 2 spins, one could not see the logic in investing more energy into the spin.
If one were smoking crack before entering a website, one would sound like this.
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Old 08-11-2004, 01:32 PM   #18
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

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ORIGINAL: HAZCON7

Quote:
If one is hitting the same spot with 2 spins, one could not see the logic in investing more energy into the spin.
If one were smoking crack before entering a website, one would sound like this.


Actually I think this one of the few things dwassp has said that I do understand.

What I believe he/she is saying is that if there is already enough rotation to give proper broadhead control and hit what you are aiming at, why would you increase the spin further which will only increase downrange velocity decay (and thus energy at impact) without any further accuracy benefit
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Old 08-11-2004, 04:24 PM   #19
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

The high rate of spin is a benefit.
Because the arrow takes a little energy from the bow string to get it spinning (stabilized) It can keep stability with 80% less vanes. Because of the much smaller vanes the turbos in most setups make less noise than conventional fletch arrows. the DEADX with .8 sq. in and the Hunter with 1.6 sq. in . of vane will do the same as three four or five inch vanes which have a total area of from 4 to 7 square inches. The larger the vanes the more noise. To this date we have had no animal duck or jump a turbo, and have a lot of video that we have studied and show at hunting shows proving this.

IN the real world where we hunt there is another factor that affects shooting. Cross winds. TURBO NOCKs because of their small size and high rpm do not drift as much in cross wind as a conventional fletched arrow. another benefit.
Most average shooters usually cut their 20yd groups by 50% , so if you are used to shooting 2in. groups at 20yds you will possibly be shooting 1
in. groups.
What this also does for hunting is it should give most shooters the ability if they so choose to extend their kill range at least ten to 20 yds .
Bottom line the TURBO gives more consistant arrow flight over a much wider range of wind and weather conditions.
The logic behind the turbo is so simple , basically no one ever thought to put rifling on arrows. Why not ?? It sure makes bullets work better!
When I was a kid now matter what I did to my arrows , my 22 would always out shoot my bow and arrow, and I never fletched my 22.
40 years later this made sense. Perhaps fletching is not the best way to fly arrows. Compounds work better than recurves, fallaways are a mechanical advantage over stationary rests. Basically every arrow ever made has been a stick with feathers or vanes on it, the sticks have just gotten prettier. The TURBO is the first system that does to arrows what the compound did to recurves. A mechanical advantage.

One person commented that a high rate of spin will cause decay of flight and loose trajectory and speed which will affect penetration.

The TURBO because it stabilizes from the bowstring does not use up the enegry a conventional fletch requires just to make the arrow spin.
Because it is so much smaller it has less wind resistance and in actuality
flys faster, drifts less, and penetrates better because of less velocity lost.
WE chronographed a conventional fletch three 5in. vanes from several bows and compared the speeds to the same shaft with a turbo deadx
CSS System 40 lbs- Fletched 230 fps vs DEADX 234fps
Matthews lx 60lbs. fletched 290fps vs DEADX 297fps
Highcountry did a test with one of their carbon riser bows and one of their arrows at a recent hunting show. fletched 330fps vs DEADX 342fps
IN all cases the turbo left the bow faster because of less wind resistance
and the conventional arrow never catches up.
In most cases you get 3 inches flatter trajectory at 20 yds and 5 inches at 50 yds and 8 inches at 80 yds.
I think this would be a benefit.
For those who have never seen a turbo I am attaching a comparison photo.

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Old 08-11-2004, 11:47 PM   #20
 
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Default RE: Arrow rotation, is it important?

Regretful about the verbal communication guys, language is a problem for me.

And if one is not shooting over 300 fps I do not deem, saving energy is that important anyways.

Now the low profile or whatsoever will keep the speed & trajectory that one can get from a bow, would be beneficial.

Every person would need to test the bow& set-up they use.
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