Coyotes hunting
05-12-2017, 02:33 PM
#21
Spike
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
I'd look first for a good lead dog, something fast and smart, a Lurcher or Cur. Once you get her trained she can help train the rest of the pack.
Don't rule out adoption, adoption dogs can be more work, but you can save a bunch of money. Sit and watch the dog, you can tell if they are smart or not. Bring a bunny with you, if they go nuts over the bunny, they likely have a strong prey drive.
A lot of people buy hunting dogs and run into trouble when they fail to exercise them enough and they cause problems.
I like Weimaraners, high energy, good noses and are generally good family dogs. But they can tend to be territorial, bite strangers and can be a handful.
I tend to do better with female dogs than male, people make a big deal about the Alpha male, IMO it is mostly bunk. The females usually lead the pack. Few male dogs will seriously injure a female (unless they are psycho) not so for a female. This may be the reason males tend to be bigger,survivability .
Don't rule out adoption, adoption dogs can be more work, but you can save a bunch of money. Sit and watch the dog, you can tell if they are smart or not. Bring a bunny with you, if they go nuts over the bunny, they likely have a strong prey drive.
A lot of people buy hunting dogs and run into trouble when they fail to exercise them enough and they cause problems.
I like Weimaraners, high energy, good noses and are generally good family dogs. But they can tend to be territorial, bite strangers and can be a handful.
I tend to do better with female dogs than male, people make a big deal about the Alpha male, IMO it is mostly bunk. The females usually lead the pack. Few male dogs will seriously injure a female (unless they are psycho) not so for a female. This may be the reason males tend to be bigger,survivability .
05-12-2017, 03:42 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
I most always used multiple dogs,The Hounds or the Shepard were rarely farther than 20-30 seconds behind the Cur/Lurcher, usually closer. The Cur had a tendency to turn whatever she was chasing, a born stock Dog. The slower dogs could cut the angle.
She was as fast as a Yote but had more stamina.
The only time she ever got in trouble was with a Cougar. she got separated from the pack and got seriously hurt. That was an expensive Vet bill.
05-12-2017, 04:07 PM
#23
Spike
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
Ok I was wondering when you said you would like for a good lead dog then they can learn the rest I was wondering because I am starting from scratch I know you said yours looked like a black mouth cur did you mean it was a pure blood or x with a stock dog also have you ever had any of the other cur dogs was turning game something that she just know how to do or did you teach her general speaking was she the one that tend to find them frist
Last edited by Kyboy88; 05-12-2017 at 04:27 PM.
05-12-2017, 10:15 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Ok I was wondering when you said you would like for a good lead dog then they can learn the rest I was wondering because I am starting from scratch I know you said yours looked like a black mouth cur did you mean it was a pure blood or x with a stock dog also have you ever had any of the other cur dogs was turning game something that she just know how to do or did you teach her general speaking was she the one that tend to find them frist
I always thought she was a Boxer Shepard mix, I had never heard of a Black Mouthed Cur. The first time I saw a photo of a Black Mouth Cur I thought It looked an awful lot like her.
She'd take to a field and start making loops, sometimes out to quarter of a mile. For every hundred yards I walked she'd run four hundred.
When she was about a year old I added a pair of Weimaraner pups. Thinking she needed some protection. They really couldn't keep up with her and tended to do a lot of nose to the ground work, where she was sight dominant. While she was making her loops they were sniffing for scent inside her loops. They turned out to be more chase dogs and bay hounds than fighters. Though they both seemed to have a tendency to dart in and grab a Yote by the back leg.
The Lurcher and/or the hounds could both wear out a Fox or Yote, outlast them. I was getting worried they were going to get in a real fight with a pack of Yotes or a Cougar. I added a really big German Shepard with a reputation for hating Yotes.
It was more of an evolution than a plan.
In the south west where I hunted, water was scarce, around sunset the Yotes came to drink. I had all of the local water mapped. I worked the areas near the water.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 05-12-2017 at 10:26 PM.
05-13-2017, 05:35 AM
#25
Spike
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
So just letting her go jut so far and calling her back was all it take to get her to lop? how did getting her to work off of the whistle go. did the tracking dogs take any learning from you or did they figure it out from just following her? I with the shepherd was it just coyotes he would go after did it take any work to get him to stay with the other dogs or did he want to go off on his own. I'm also did he ever act like he wanted to fight with people or other dogs I would think a dog that big and willing to go for the kill could be dangerous if it came up on another dog or hunter. I
Also with the cur was she just a sight hunter or would she track a lot of the old coon hunters around here like them because they are a hot noised dog and fast to tree one.
If you were starting from scratch today would you still go with the gundogs that you did or would you go with a hound like a black and tan or a blue tick hound. I ask because I know a boy that breed's gsp that try to kill any fox coon or coyote that comes around them but I know some guys that still have some pretty good treeing hounds that will track about anything you let them go after. also I was wondering with the cur dog was turning the game something she knew to do by herself. I was thinking when you were talking about the shepherd you had about a guy I want to school with that has a long legged bulldog that came from catch dog stock but his is trained to protect his place and other animals it does a pretty good job of keeping coyotes and fox away from his house even catching a few by itself I can't help but think with other dogs to slow one down it could be pretty good what would you think if you have seen any bulldogs work
Also with the cur was she just a sight hunter or would she track a lot of the old coon hunters around here like them because they are a hot noised dog and fast to tree one.
If you were starting from scratch today would you still go with the gundogs that you did or would you go with a hound like a black and tan or a blue tick hound. I ask because I know a boy that breed's gsp that try to kill any fox coon or coyote that comes around them but I know some guys that still have some pretty good treeing hounds that will track about anything you let them go after. also I was wondering with the cur dog was turning the game something she knew to do by herself. I was thinking when you were talking about the shepherd you had about a guy I want to school with that has a long legged bulldog that came from catch dog stock but his is trained to protect his place and other animals it does a pretty good job of keeping coyotes and fox away from his house even catching a few by itself I can't help but think with other dogs to slow one down it could be pretty good what would you think if you have seen any bulldogs work
05-13-2017, 09:21 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
I trained my last Weimaraner and my daughters German Shorthair mix to do the same thing. Except backwards, I trained them to recover to a whistle and gradually defined the size of the loops I wanted. Wasn't really hard to do.
I'd call her predominantly a Lurcher, she had a nose but was mostly a sight hunter.
The hounds got the basic obedience at around 6 months. Their chew toys were Fox, Yote and Hog hides. Both were really people dogs by nature, loved people. But also loved the chase.
I have no idea why the Shepard hated Yotes so bad. Where he came from was the last house next to wild country. Best guess is he had run ins with Yotes from a young age and learned to fight. He wasn't particularly aggressive, he didn't go looking for a fight, except for Yotes. He had really strong territorial urges. He did kill a neighbors ankle bitter dog and ate it, which freaked me out a little, but it only happened that one time. I guess the ankle bitter pushed the envelope a little bit too far. Never knew him to attack another dog unprovoked. He'd bite a stranger if they trespassed.
The pack dynamic was when one dog took out after something they all joined in. Vocalizations that weren't very loud to me were probably loud enough for a dogs ears. The nose dogs would bay, when the scent got really hot they'd squeal with delight.
They'd get sidetracked occasionally, usually a Jackrabbit. Trained them all to ignore Deer, which wasn't perfect but good enough.
They'd follow the lead dog and learned as much, if not more form the other dogs as from me.
My lead dog was the fastest and smart, I could teach her anything.
Starting over I'd likely add an Airdale for smarts and maybe a Ridgeback for prey drive. Ridgebacks are a little more aggressive than your typical gun dog, nose dominant but not all that different from other gun dogs. The difference between breeds is often not as profound as the difference between dogs in the same breed. Just because they look alike doesn't necessarily mean they always act the same. The last line of Weimaranar I dealt with were natural blood trackers and would hold wounded game until the hunter showed up, not something you'd expect from a bird dog.
I'd call her predominantly a Lurcher, she had a nose but was mostly a sight hunter.
The hounds got the basic obedience at around 6 months. Their chew toys were Fox, Yote and Hog hides. Both were really people dogs by nature, loved people. But also loved the chase.
I have no idea why the Shepard hated Yotes so bad. Where he came from was the last house next to wild country. Best guess is he had run ins with Yotes from a young age and learned to fight. He wasn't particularly aggressive, he didn't go looking for a fight, except for Yotes. He had really strong territorial urges. He did kill a neighbors ankle bitter dog and ate it, which freaked me out a little, but it only happened that one time. I guess the ankle bitter pushed the envelope a little bit too far. Never knew him to attack another dog unprovoked. He'd bite a stranger if they trespassed.
The pack dynamic was when one dog took out after something they all joined in. Vocalizations that weren't very loud to me were probably loud enough for a dogs ears. The nose dogs would bay, when the scent got really hot they'd squeal with delight.
They'd get sidetracked occasionally, usually a Jackrabbit. Trained them all to ignore Deer, which wasn't perfect but good enough.
They'd follow the lead dog and learned as much, if not more form the other dogs as from me.
My lead dog was the fastest and smart, I could teach her anything.
Starting over I'd likely add an Airdale for smarts and maybe a Ridgeback for prey drive. Ridgebacks are a little more aggressive than your typical gun dog, nose dominant but not all that different from other gun dogs. The difference between breeds is often not as profound as the difference between dogs in the same breed. Just because they look alike doesn't necessarily mean they always act the same. The last line of Weimaranar I dealt with were natural blood trackers and would hold wounded game until the hunter showed up, not something you'd expect from a bird dog.
05-13-2017, 10:39 AM
#27
Spike
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
So would you have used the airdale to replace the the cur or it and the rigback both to replace the tracks. Would there be any reason you couldn think of that a good tracking hound would not be ok. I know were I could get a cur pup pretty soon a guy I know has a black mouth cur be he uses on his trap line and he is talking about breeding her after the session is over. Would you know any books or anything on training them on working in a lop like you were talking about or is it like you were talking about just letting them go out and calling them back to you also is the turning game something that Natalie to the black mouth or do they have to learn it that could be pretty interesting to see wild game worked like that but just wanted to say thanks for being willing to answer some questions
05-13-2017, 11:49 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Some of the Black Mouth Curs I've seen are kind of big boned and don't really look all that fast. Some have those long legs and a deep chest and are likely to be runners. A Black Mouth Cur is likely to be a good choice.
Ridgeback and Airedale are both likely to have a strong prey drive. I'd still put a Lurcher out front. The Ridgeback as a nose and a fighter, the Airedale for the brains and fearlessness.
I've heard a lot about Collie, Border Collie and Australian Shepard Greyhound mixes. Might make a good speed dog and are likely to tend to want to herd.
A lot of possibilities, spotting talent is the key, the only way to do that is to watch a lot of dogs work and notice the telltales.
I've often tailored my hunting to my dogs talents, not so much trying to train my dog to my wishes.
My daughters German Shorthair mix wanted to bird hunt, so I took him Pheasant hunting. He also wanted to run Hogs. I once took him to a city park in the middle of the night to practice coming back to me when I whistled. He dove into a bush and came out with a Cock Pheasant in his mouth. Ye old round peg, in ye old round hole.
Some you can train and encourage, some is genetic and doesn't take a lot of training. Sometimes it is easier for you to tailor your hunt to your dogs talents.
That giant Shepard I've talked about was also a decent Squirrel dog, he seemed really interested in killing Squirrels. Just one of those hidden talents you need to spot.
Ridgeback and Airedale are both likely to have a strong prey drive. I'd still put a Lurcher out front. The Ridgeback as a nose and a fighter, the Airedale for the brains and fearlessness.
I've heard a lot about Collie, Border Collie and Australian Shepard Greyhound mixes. Might make a good speed dog and are likely to tend to want to herd.
A lot of possibilities, spotting talent is the key, the only way to do that is to watch a lot of dogs work and notice the telltales.
I've often tailored my hunting to my dogs talents, not so much trying to train my dog to my wishes.
My daughters German Shorthair mix wanted to bird hunt, so I took him Pheasant hunting. He also wanted to run Hogs. I once took him to a city park in the middle of the night to practice coming back to me when I whistled. He dove into a bush and came out with a Cock Pheasant in his mouth. Ye old round peg, in ye old round hole.
Some you can train and encourage, some is genetic and doesn't take a lot of training. Sometimes it is easier for you to tailor your hunt to your dogs talents.
That giant Shepard I've talked about was also a decent Squirrel dog, he seemed really interested in killing Squirrels. Just one of those hidden talents you need to spot.
