Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
08-08-2007, 03:23 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,911
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: drhntr178
Im not trying to argue the overpopulation, but the imbalance sex ratio.
And am i the only one who has not seen turkeys flying to relocate due to overcrowding.
ORIGINAL: cptleo1
I would think it has everything to do with the carrying capicity of the land.
I don't believe birds will over graze a particular piece of land.
They just fly some where else.
If the animals in question don't over burden their food sources then.
More hens= More Turkeys = More gobblers. Everybody loves turkeys, so it is a good thing.
The flock basically grows out of control.
And flies to new territory as needed.
Something deer would have a hard time with.
ORIGINAL: drhntr178
I havent read all the posts but Ill throw in my 2 cents...Why does male only harvest work for turkeys but not for deer? In both species the males fight for dominance and extablish a pecking order. the males also mate with multiple females. Why does it work so well for one species and not the other?
I havent read all the posts but Ill throw in my 2 cents...Why does male only harvest work for turkeys but not for deer? In both species the males fight for dominance and extablish a pecking order. the males also mate with multiple females. Why does it work so well for one species and not the other?
I don't believe birds will over graze a particular piece of land.
They just fly some where else.
If the animals in question don't over burden their food sources then.
More hens= More Turkeys = More gobblers. Everybody loves turkeys, so it is a good thing.
The flock basically grows out of control.
And flies to new territory as needed.
Something deer would have a hard time with.
And am i the only one who has not seen turkeys flying to relocate due to overcrowding.
08-08-2007, 03:25 PM
#62
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 244
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
shooting does to keep the doe to buck ratio even is one reason another would be that there are to many deer for the carring capacity of the land.The later reason would be the killing of bucksand doe's as long as the ratio stays at an even keel.
08-08-2007, 03:26 PM
#63
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
IMO you can't compare turkeys to deer.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
08-08-2007, 03:26 PM
#64
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,911
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: rankbull
I think there are a lot more predators fro turkey than deer, and you never hear about a person being killed in a car turkey crash
just my 2 cents Good topic
ORIGINAL: drhntr178
I havent read all the posts but Ill throw in my 2 cents...Why does male only harvest work for turkeys but not for deer? In both species the males fight for dominance and extablish a pecking order. the males also mate with multiple females. Why does it work so well for one species and not the other?
I havent read all the posts but Ill throw in my 2 cents...Why does male only harvest work for turkeys but not for deer? In both species the males fight for dominance and extablish a pecking order. the males also mate with multiple females. Why does it work so well for one species and not the other?
I think there are a lot more predators fro turkey than deer, and you never hear about a person being killed in a car turkey crash
just my 2 cents Good topic
08-08-2007, 03:36 PM
#65
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 304
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
In a pefectly natural environment......no overpopulation.......I would "think" the more dominant bucks (and they're dominant for a reason) would do most of the breeding. THEIR offspring would (naturally) be MORE "dominant" than the offspring of the less dominant animals.....and, therefore, would be next in line to the throne....or next in line to do "some" of the "other" breeding.
Natural selection....in its purest form.
Is this flawed logic?
In a pefectly natural environment......no overpopulation.......I would "think" the more dominant bucks (and they're dominant for a reason) would do most of the breeding. THEIR offspring would (naturally) be MORE "dominant" than the offspring of the less dominant animals.....and, therefore, would be next in line to the throne....or next in line to do "some" of the "other" breeding.
Natural selection....in its purest form.
Is this flawed logic?
There are only so many hours in a day.
A doe's peak breeding time is only a matter of hours and a man can't be everywhere @ once.
So the the #2 guy and so on get a little here and there just buy being in the right place @ the right time.
The gene pool has to be continually expanding. Thats why nature lets some of lets say smaller guys to get a little.
With only one sire for the whole tribe, after a while all the cousins start looking a little wierd.
Although size, horns and fighting ability get you top the top, the herd needs other things.
The #2 or#3 guy might not be able to fight worth spit, but he has the most sensitive nose of any deer to come down the pike in 100 yrs,
This needs to get into the gene pool anddoes - while the big guy isn't watching,
His fawns still won't be much as fighters , but their better noses will keep them alive in a situation where muscles would do no good.
Mean while the #6 deer who can't fight and is blind as a bat gets a little by accident.
His breeding really makes no difference cause his fawns can't see the wolf that is about to eat them, mean while the #2 guys fawnns have smelled the wolf long ago and are safely GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because Miss good nose fawn got away, she has a chance to give #1 a littleand now we have a fighter with a sense of smell.
Thats why everybody gets a little.
08-08-2007, 04:20 PM
#66
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,118
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: _Dan
IMO you can't compare turkeys to deer.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
IMO you can't compare turkeys to deer.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
So let me rephrase my question: Why do biologists not worry about the sex ratio/imbalance of turkey but think it would be detrimental to the ' health' of the deer herd?
08-08-2007, 04:35 PM
#67
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 384
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: _Dan
IMO you can't compare turkeys to deer.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
IMO you can't compare turkeys to deer.
But for the sake of the thread......Maybe our thinking of turkey populations is along the same lines of old traditional deer management. More hens/does=more turekys/deer.......and don't we have a problem with the deer populations in certain areas?????
I believe, once turkey populations reach capacity, management strategies will change.
This is a great thead. I must admit I'm from the old school where does were sacred. This thread has given me much food for thought. Thanks y'all...
08-08-2007, 04:44 PM
#68
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
Dang, you guys have been busy...I spent too much time on here today, I am getting behind on my work...
The turkey answer....Once hens are bred they go to the nest and lay an egg, they do this every day for about 2 weeks, they lay about a dozen eggs, during this time they roost as normal in trees....Once they finish laying a clutch of eggs they go on the nest and stay there, day and night for about 28 days, until the eggs hatch, now even though the eggs were laid over a 2 week period, they all hatch within 12 hours or so of each other...So the loss of hen turkeys runs almost 40% in the spring because of predators while they are on the nest....Many turkeys are also lost every year during hay season they get run over by the mower conditioner...
This is why many states do not have a fall season, and if they do, hens are often excluded....
Like I said earlier, killing does made a hugh difference on our farms...I know you can go too far, as most states did during the Depression, my dad was a market hunter at that time....But...last year 25,000 deer were killed on the highways in NC...If you live in a state with a high deer population, there is nothing wrong with taking does.
The turkey answer....Once hens are bred they go to the nest and lay an egg, they do this every day for about 2 weeks, they lay about a dozen eggs, during this time they roost as normal in trees....Once they finish laying a clutch of eggs they go on the nest and stay there, day and night for about 28 days, until the eggs hatch, now even though the eggs were laid over a 2 week period, they all hatch within 12 hours or so of each other...So the loss of hen turkeys runs almost 40% in the spring because of predators while they are on the nest....Many turkeys are also lost every year during hay season they get run over by the mower conditioner...
This is why many states do not have a fall season, and if they do, hens are often excluded....
Like I said earlier, killing does made a hugh difference on our farms...I know you can go too far, as most states did during the Depression, my dad was a market hunter at that time....But...last year 25,000 deer were killed on the highways in NC...If you live in a state with a high deer population, there is nothing wrong with taking does.
08-08-2007, 04:49 PM
#69
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,118
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: nchawkeye
Dang, you guys have been busy...I spent too much time on here today, I am getting behind on my work...
The turkey answer....Once hens are bred they go to the nest and lay an egg, they do this every day for about 2 weeks, they lay about a dozen eggs, during this time they roost as normal in trees....Once they finish laying a clutch of eggs they go on the nest and stay there, day and night for about 21 days, until the eggs hatch, now even though the eggs were laid over a 2 week period, they all hatch within 12 hours or so of each other...So the loss of hen turkeys runs almost 40% in the spring because of predators while they are on the nest....Many turkeys are also lost every year during hay season they get run over by the mower conditioner...
This is why many states do not have a fall season, and if they do, hens are often excluded....
Dang, you guys have been busy...I spent too much time on here today, I am getting behind on my work...
The turkey answer....Once hens are bred they go to the nest and lay an egg, they do this every day for about 2 weeks, they lay about a dozen eggs, during this time they roost as normal in trees....Once they finish laying a clutch of eggs they go on the nest and stay there, day and night for about 21 days, until the eggs hatch, now even though the eggs were laid over a 2 week period, they all hatch within 12 hours or so of each other...So the loss of hen turkeys runs almost 40% in the spring because of predators while they are on the nest....Many turkeys are also lost every year during hay season they get run over by the mower conditioner...
This is why many states do not have a fall season, and if they do, hens are often excluded....
08-08-2007, 05:45 PM
#70
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Is Harvesting Does Really the Right Thing to do?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
SON OF A............
I've found my calling!! (need a prostaffer?)
Sorry.....what am I thinking. Sorry, Mobo.....no doubt you're the better candidate!
SON OF A............
I've found my calling!! (need a prostaffer?)
Sorry.....what am I thinking. Sorry, Mobo.....no doubt you're the better candidate!