Jack Ryan

Sure it moves around, it moves around on me or anybody. None of this ELIMINATES that. At least nothing I've ever tried completely eliminates it short of a bench shot.

I've got several muzzleloaders. 2 side lock Hawken rifles and a KY long rifle I built from a kit. I've shot them a lot over the years, not so much lately. The principles are the same. The Hawken rifle is pretty front heavy but even that is a plus or minus thing. It's heavy to hold, but it is actually less moving around AT FIRST. You can't hold that gun near as long waiting for it to pause on the target as long BUT the heavy barrel actually slows the movement down and makes the movement smaller AT FIRST until it starts getting heavy.

I've never tried the loop or hasty sling with the old rifles so I won't say I have a good comparison but I don't think it would help at much with a heavy long barrel.

I've never shot one of the modern in lines so I can't say "I know... I've done this...". But the ones I've held to consider buying didn't feel much different from from a comparable adult size quality center fire rifle. Like a 700 BDL or my own Savage pallet wood 110. I should do some research before I say more. I might be remembering this all wrong... I've never gave the guns like Knight Rifles and such serious consideration to purchase. Let alone owned one.

Jack Ryan

Heck Muley, I haven't been able to EXACTLY meet that poster since I was 50 years old.

To me there's no such thing as target positions and hunting positions.

There's the best position that exists, like from sand bagged on a bench, all the way to "Hey! There's one...". EVERY animal deserves the best you can give him, that's what he's giving you. Big game animals I won't even shoot out of position as some distances. Other times if they pop up from behind a tree 20 yards away I'd just shoulder the gun and pop him. But given the chance I'm going to take a rest, a deep breath, and squeeze even 20 yards away.

I think I posted a picture of a little buck I shot dead in the eye and through the brains here one time. That's not because I'm the worlds greatest dead eye shot. It's because I'm patient and wouldn't take a half way pot shot. I don't miss much because I take my chances on the range at paper. I shot that buck from about ten yards away over head in a tree stand I was resting the rifle on the bar you sit on to climb with. When he walked straight up to me, looked up at me and stared trying to figure me out.

He'd have lived another year if he hadn't handed me that gimme.

I haven't taken an off hand standing shot at anything but beavers and coyotes in years and years. I STILL want to be as good as I can be at it as I can be, just in case I want or need to do it. I've used that standing target position, as near as I can get, many many times when I've caught a beaver between two shallow spots in a creek. You can't wait until they come up and then start figuring out how to hit that tennis ball size brain of theirs. I'll often see just a ring of ripples where I KNOW they are just under those weeds and get ready until THEY ARE ready to move where I can see them to shoot clearly. That means holding that rifle on target a LONG LONG time some times. When that happens you are darn glad you can take your trigger hand off and scratch your nose sometimes with out the gun ever leaving the target.

super_hunt54

You aren't getting the point Jack. It's not got a single thing to do with the rifles weight or stock design with what I am talking about. It's all about the TIMING because of the ignition system with a muzzleloader being slower. Now granted, a good inline with quality primer ignition as well as quality powder loaded to proper compression weights and such is still pretty quick but it's definitely slower from the trigger pull to the bullet leaving the barrel. And every single one, as well as every single load, changes that timing. And with movement comes POI change so you have to time your trigger pull taking ALL of that into account. That is why I said it is best to practice with the load and rifle you plan to use for hunting as that is the tool that you will be needing to be the most familiar with in the field. ESPECIALLY if you plan to shoot off hand.

BarnesAddict

I believe there's a lot of contributing factors to it, but with that timing also includes the shooters anticipation of the rifle's recoil. If a person anticipates the coming recoil and changes his/her hold, just the mere push change of .080" can make a bullet hit 4" lower than off a full rest at 100yds.

super_hunt54

Most definitely Barnes. Again, stressing the need to practice with a certain load as well as a certain rifle. You know the rifle, load, and recoil of that particular setup, and practice with that setup, then all falls into place. You practice with something else and everything gets all out of sorts. Example: I practice with my Hawken with 80gr Swiss 2F under a 300gr connie, get really accurate with that setup off hand, then, without practicing off hand, just shooting it a couple times off the bench, change it up to 90gr Swiss 2F under a 250gr connie, my off hand shots are going to be ALL out of wack! Timing will be different. Recoil will be different. POI will be different. Example 2: Practice with my Hawken with that first load. Take my TC pro hunter inline out hunting and expect to be accurate off hand? Not likely!

I practice with a LOT of rigs throughout the year. From AR's to my Hawken. But when I am getting ready for a hunt, I usually practice for a week or 2 with what I am taking on a particular hunt.

ronlaughlin

Gobblers were in display along, and in the road; Spring is on the way? Probably only a couple more blizzard, and then it will be summer? The rifle used this morning was the same as in post # 107, after the stock was changed. Just wasn't able to make friends with the 'thumb hole'. The bullet, and load used this morning was the same as post # 107.

















It was 17 degrees when the shooting started; breeze was zero. Seven shots were taken. After shooting it was 31 degrees, and there was a slight breeze. The carry strap was used as a 'hasty' sling. Tried to stand like the diagram, so to have 'skeletal' support, but who knows? The third shot is the lowest. The second shot is the highest. The seventh shot is the lower in the red.























..

Semisane

Same with me Ron. I can't get the right feel with them.

Muley Hunter

Cover up the two bottom holes and it looks perfect Ron.

super_hunt54

TH stocks definitely aren't for everyone or for every action type either. Some like them as long as they are fit well (me being one of them) and others just can't get that "feel right" feeling with them.

Judging from the order of shots Ron, it looks like you are starting to settle in and gaining confidence which is of great importance. As you get more comfortable with that rifle your groups will undoubtedly improve even more. Good shooting!!

bronko22000

They're all good except #3. Seems like there is always one that gets away from us.
But I think we've just about beaten this thread to a pulp!
I'm jealous because I can't get out and shoot. All my MLs are up in PA and I'm in FL. I'm soon going to get fed up and go shoot me a pig with my AR-10. At least I'll get to feel some recoil.