BH209 Fouling for 1st shot accuracy--report and ??
01-15-2015, 06:03 PM
#11
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 46
Hoppes elite cleaner is definately oil based, and slick2000s description calls it a synthetic lubricant. Sounds like synthetic oil to me.
However, that aside, I like the fact that BH 209 is not nearly as corrosive as 777, but since you clean up immediately anyway, 777 would clean up easier and be no more corrosive. I have a 15 year old sidelock that has only had pyrodex and 777 through it and it is rust free. I clean 777 with water, dry it out and apply Montana extreme. I suspect Montan extreme and slick2000 are similar.
However, that aside, I like the fact that BH 209 is not nearly as corrosive as 777, but since you clean up immediately anyway, 777 would clean up easier and be no more corrosive. I have a 15 year old sidelock that has only had pyrodex and 777 through it and it is rust free. I clean 777 with water, dry it out and apply Montana extreme. I suspect Montan extreme and slick2000 are similar.
I don't see how you can say triple 7 cleans up easier than BH209. I run a bore snake through my barrel with 3 passes and its shiny clean. I put hoppes solvent on the brush part. I know this couldn't be possible with triple seven at least I couldn't when I used it
01-16-2015, 02:50 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 921
Over the past several years using BH 209 I have always cleaned my rifles(3 Knights with bare primer breech plugs) after each range session using Hoppes Elite and a drilll bit to clean out the carbon from the flame channel. I finish by running a patch with a very small amount of Montana gun oil through the barrel before installing the breech plug. Before reloading to hunt I pop 3 primers to foul. In the last 3 years doing that I'm yet to miss an animal with my fist shot. I'll have to try that procedure on the range this spring to see if my 1st shot is off.
When hunting, I leave my loaded gun in a case in the truck overnight. I don't swab or clean anything except the exterior of the gun, until I've finished hunting. Twice this year, when I knew I would be back at the lease in a few days, instead of my normal 2 to 3 week interval(its 600 miles from my house) I have just removed the primer and left the gun loaded and have not had any ignition problems with the first shot nor have I failed to connect on an animal. I'll be interested to see the outcome of my range work. I shoot 110 gr of BH 209, 300 gr Harvester PT Gold bullet, black CR sabot and Federal 209A Primer.
When hunting, I leave my loaded gun in a case in the truck overnight. I don't swab or clean anything except the exterior of the gun, until I've finished hunting. Twice this year, when I knew I would be back at the lease in a few days, instead of my normal 2 to 3 week interval(its 600 miles from my house) I have just removed the primer and left the gun loaded and have not had any ignition problems with the first shot nor have I failed to connect on an animal. I'll be interested to see the outcome of my range work. I shoot 110 gr of BH 209, 300 gr Harvester PT Gold bullet, black CR sabot and Federal 209A Primer.
01-16-2015, 09:29 AM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 406
As a BH209 user, just a thought...
First shot on a cold clean barrel can be differet from the group. Then reload as people have said and the accuracy improves around shot 3 and is consistent from then on.
A bullet & sabot when loaded after firing will no doubt push the fouling left in the barrell down on top of the powder. Not consistent to the first shot. After shot #3 and so on, the fouling is consistent from shot to shot as additional fouling is shot out of the barrell, thus leaving the same amount of fouling to be compressed down by the next loading sequence (consistent). The advantage of BH209 appears to be the fouling does not continually increase like some other powders, thus allowing the shooter more shots between cleaning and consistency at shot 3 and subsequent shots.
I use the 3 primer prep method, dry swab the gun and then sigt in for that first shot. The first shot to the group is acceptable (to me) for hunting accuracy (about 1.5"). However, if we are looking to bring the first shot into a cloverleaf group @ 100 yds, time after time after time. I do not see how it can be done without either firing a fouling shot, swabbing the barrel or consistently firing from a cold clean barrell regardless of the powder selected.
First shot on a cold clean barrel can be differet from the group. Then reload as people have said and the accuracy improves around shot 3 and is consistent from then on.
A bullet & sabot when loaded after firing will no doubt push the fouling left in the barrell down on top of the powder. Not consistent to the first shot. After shot #3 and so on, the fouling is consistent from shot to shot as additional fouling is shot out of the barrell, thus leaving the same amount of fouling to be compressed down by the next loading sequence (consistent). The advantage of BH209 appears to be the fouling does not continually increase like some other powders, thus allowing the shooter more shots between cleaning and consistency at shot 3 and subsequent shots.
I use the 3 primer prep method, dry swab the gun and then sigt in for that first shot. The first shot to the group is acceptable (to me) for hunting accuracy (about 1.5"). However, if we are looking to bring the first shot into a cloverleaf group @ 100 yds, time after time after time. I do not see how it can be done without either firing a fouling shot, swabbing the barrel or consistently firing from a cold clean barrell regardless of the powder selected.
Last edited by Kathwacckkk; 01-16-2015 at 09:31 AM. Reason: spelling
01-16-2015, 09:52 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
I guess what I am seeing here is that some people do not realize that like loads two guns that appear identical often react completely different to that first shot and the possible ways of getting it in the group.
My own experience: My Triumph blue barrel, will put the first shot in the group or within 1/4 inch if well cleaned and 4 209 are fired through it one before cleaning three after cleaning before loading.
My Endeavor many experiments tried the only one with usable results not good but usable to 150 yds.' for hunting deer is 3-209 before cleaning the oil out and cleaning again then firing 6-209.
My 45 Bergara shoots with in 1 inch of a 1 inch group with 3 209 fired after wiping out the barrel.
My Omega shot in the group with out even wiping the barrel.
I posted this so that the newer people will under stand the what works for some one else may not be the right answer for them.
My own experience: My Triumph blue barrel, will put the first shot in the group or within 1/4 inch if well cleaned and 4 209 are fired through it one before cleaning three after cleaning before loading.
My Endeavor many experiments tried the only one with usable results not good but usable to 150 yds.' for hunting deer is 3-209 before cleaning the oil out and cleaning again then firing 6-209.
My 45 Bergara shoots with in 1 inch of a 1 inch group with 3 209 fired after wiping out the barrel.
My Omega shot in the group with out even wiping the barrel.
I posted this so that the newer people will under stand the what works for some one else may not be the right answer for them.
01-16-2015, 03:54 PM
#15
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 202
I guess what I am seeing here is that some people do not realize that like loads two guns that appear identical often react completely different to that first shot and the possible ways of getting it in the group.
My own experience: My Triumph blue barrel, will put the first shot in the group or within 1/4 inch if well cleaned and 4 209 are fired through it one before cleaning three after cleaning before loading.
My Endeavor many experiments tried the only one with usable results not good but usable to 150 yds.' for hunting deer is 3-209 before cleaning the oil out and cleaning again then firing 6-209.
My 45 Bergara shoots with in 1 inch of a 1 inch group with 3 209 fired after wiping out the barrel.
My Omega shot in the group with out even wiping the barrel.
I posted this so that the newer people will under stand the what works for some one else may not be the right answer for them.
My own experience: My Triumph blue barrel, will put the first shot in the group or within 1/4 inch if well cleaned and 4 209 are fired through it one before cleaning three after cleaning before loading.
My Endeavor many experiments tried the only one with usable results not good but usable to 150 yds.' for hunting deer is 3-209 before cleaning the oil out and cleaning again then firing 6-209.
My 45 Bergara shoots with in 1 inch of a 1 inch group with 3 209 fired after wiping out the barrel.
My Omega shot in the group with out even wiping the barrel.
I posted this so that the newer people will under stand the what works for some one else may not be the right answer for them.
01-16-2015, 05:05 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
I shot this target specific to indicate what a Pro Hunter I owned did. Because I may have a long range shot with my first shot, I fired two rounds, then knew the rifle would be dead on. Encores shot the same also. It may not be the case for a rifle you have but, this is what happened with my Pro Hunter, starting with a clean barrel, swabbed with two clean patches, minimum of 2 primers to foul the barrel, then shoot.
01-16-2015, 06:06 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 202
Wow BarnsAddict, that is exactly the opposite of what mine did...mine started out lower and rose. I wonder if firing a squib BH209 shot would be better than primers only. But it would still be like the second shot, and it appears that most people need 3 to start grouping tightly. Maybe two squibs?
01-16-2015, 07:36 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
Personally, if its me....I'd rather have my first shot out of a clean gun be dead on. It can drift after that, my deer is on the ground. If I had a gun that had major shift like that, I'd probably sight it in to my first shot on a clean barrel. My knights shot with pyrodex don't have any major difference between first shot or subsequent. I guess I'm lucky.
01-17-2015, 03:32 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Near a lake with no fish
Posts: 1,077
Wow BarnsAddict, that is exactly the opposite of what mine did...mine started out lower and rose. I wonder if firing a squib BH209 shot would be better than primers only. But it would still be like the second shot, and it appears that most people need 3 to start grouping tightly. Maybe two squibs?
One of BH's greatest attributes is, it doesn't suck up moisture like the other substitutes and is less corrosive. This gives a better advantage when having to fire a couple rounds to foul the barrel prior to hunting. Of course the obvious things, cold into warm, extremely humid or rainy weather, falling in a creek etc., still apply. At the end of every day's hunt, I always wipe down the entire rifle with a lubricated rag. For either of our 2 week seasons, I leave the rifle loaded but, "if in doubt, shoot it out" and reload.
If my first shot may be only 60 -70yds, I wouldn't have much of a problem hunting from a completely clean barrel. On the other hand, if my first shot was 150 to 200yds, then I'd have a problem. The larger problem with how that rifle shot, would be if I were to take more than one shot, taking more than one whitetail. I will in NO WAY, not know where my rifle is going to shoot. If I have to guess or compensate, its time for a different rifle.
I've owned and shot muzzleloaders for a long time and only one rifle has ever shot to the same POI COMPLETELY clean as fouled. That happens to be my current Ultimate Firearms Inc. rifle. Its just my 2¢ that it depends on each individual rifle..............