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Old 12-04-2003, 02:17 AM   #21
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

Being primarily a bow hunter I have a hard time not looking behind the shoulder.

That said I did kill a 4x5 bull elk with my 338 six years ago that I shot through the shoulder. The bull still made it about 45 yards before he piled up.

The 250 grain custom bonded core bullet that i was shooting I found just inside the hide on the opposite side. That bullet weighed 225 grains after we retrieved it. It never ceases to amaze me on how much energy those animals can absorb and still keep going.

Guess all I can say is make ethical shots regardless and shoot a heavy enough calibre to do the job.

good hunting

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Old 12-04-2003, 05:25 AM   #22
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

Anybody who's chased a elk hit a couple inches too far back wouldn't ask this question. To hell with all this shot placement stuff. You AIM a rifle for the center of the biggest kill zone presented. That's a shoulder shot. Use enuff bullet an' he ain't goin' nowheres.
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Old 12-04-2003, 07:17 AM   #23
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

BJ,
I know you've been around a few downed animals but mostly taken with a rifle I'd guess. Now if you decide to take me up on that bowhunt, do yourself a big favor and don't crowd that shoulder during practice and get a bad habit going and especially on the real thing. If you stick with a recurve or longbow they don't produce the umph to be messing around no shoulder area, you must hit behind it. There's plenty of lung behind that shoulder to hit without without getting close to the leg bone or scapula or shoulder blade. Just a tip for my ole friend. I don't want no excuses when the time comes next year that you weren't sure about shot placement with them sticks.(grin) elknut1
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:27 PM   #24
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

On a broadside the DL shot is the highest % shot to take and will result in a dead animal in short order. The shoulder shot has its benefits as well and usually will result in a DL with the proper bullet selection, caliber and placement on most game. My fav is a quarter away right behind the showing shoulder using the opposite shoulder as backing, when having this shot i have never seen any game make it out of my sight. Moose & Elk I want a double lung shot, it provides the biggest target, doesn't ruin meat and will drop that animal in short order.

Moose are much easier to drop than a elk, however there shoulders are extremely strong and large, my advice is aim for the lungs and watch him fall over in your scope. The 3006 with 180 gr bullet is more than enough to topple a moose and probably safe to say this bullet and cartridge takes more moose annually than all others combined. BTW, I don't use a 3006 but certainly don't believe a 338 is required if Moose and Deer are your main concerns. However if you want one they will more than do the trick and be an excellent elk gun if you ever decide to give them a whirl...just aim for the H/L and save that precious meat on the swamp donkey's.
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Old 12-06-2003, 06:34 AM   #25
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

elknut,
Good reasin not to go after the finest big game critter on the planet with a sharp stick. Thanks pal, I priced them custom bows an' all the trappings. Now I ain't got no reasin to part with my hard-earned money for such a marginal wapiti weapon. I ain't fond of trackin' wounded animals thet got the feet of a goat an' the legs of a horse.
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Old 12-07-2003, 04:29 AM   #26
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

I'm not going to get into the shoulder or double lung thing since my experience is only on white tails and one Black Bear. I will offer this on recoil. Years ago I was priveleged to meet Art LaHa. Art was a long time friend and competitor of Fred Bear. Fred considered him the premier tracker in the world at that time and a recognized expert in all aspects of big game hunting. Art had film from various hunts in Alaska and other parts of the world for dangerous game. He made a point of remarking in one film sequence of a Lady (a very small Lady) taking a very large Brown Bear in Alaska using a .458 that people of smaller stature are typically less affected by the recoil of large caliber rifles than are those larger framed people. His theory was that there was less area in direct contact with the butt of the rifle and therefore there was less energy transferred to the shoulder of the shooter. I do not know if his theory has any accuracy to it but that is what he said.
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Old 12-07-2003, 07:07 AM   #27
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

"Shot placement" infers a level of control over where the bullet impacts that does not exist under field conditions. It allows nothing for umpteen variables on where that bullet is going in defiance to what the hunter sees through his scope. You "aim" a bullet, you don't "place" it. Then you hope your breathing, the animal's motion, the rifle's recoil, the wind, tree branches, slope, perceived range, and everthing else was in control enough to let the bullet fly to your point of aim. I'll go to my grave disputing the term "shot placement". It ain't a valid hook to hang yer hat on, specially when there's so much at stake. I've seed enuff poor shot critters to know a shooting misnomer when I hear one.
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Old 12-07-2003, 05:56 PM   #28
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

BJ, I have been hunting and shooting for nearly 50 years. I understand what shot placement means and I too have seen more than my share of the results of poorly placed shots. I have tracked more than my share of wounded animals and do not wish to do it again but I know I will simply because some people will continue to use more gun than they are able to handle efficieltly. A big bullet delivered at sufficient energy in the right place will undoubtedly do the job on anything you can imagine. That same bullet used by a person that flinches everytime he/she drops the hammer on that particular rifle is going to result in missed, or worse, wounded animals. Better a person use an adequate rifle and cartridge and be proficient in its use than go for something out of their league.
My only intent when I posted above was to provide the point of view of a man, who was in his lifetime, a highly respected member of the hunting community a peer and valued friend of Fred Bear and a person I had met and found to be intelligent and straight forward in all aspects of hunting.
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Old 12-08-2003, 07:42 AM   #29
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

BJ I totally agree with you it should say point of aim not shot placement!
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Old 12-08-2003, 08:30 AM   #30
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Default RE: Shoulder or Double lung

Don't get BJ started, next thing you know it'll be "rifle or weapon" (grin)
I still like weapon. LOL elknut1
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