Input needed
11-30-2009, 09:58 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Input needed
Hello All!
So I could use some good knowledgeable input on a new rifle/scope combination I am considering. But first a little background on what I do as a hunter…
I live in the great state of Wyoming and so hunt a lot of big game here and in Colorado and Montana. I have been here 15 years and always seem to shoot 3-5 mulies, 2-3 antelope, 1-3 elk, and a moose (usually in Canada) every year. I almost never trophy hunt and shoot a lot of cows and does, but if I do happen to draw a good limited-quota tag I’ll hold out for good horns. I have a huge family and we go through the meat over the course of the year so none of this is wasted. I have hunted black bear here in the spring the last 2 years (spot and stalk) although I have yet to harvest one. I seem to do a lot of spot and stalk stuff in the mountains and deserts here.
I hunted for a long time with an old .30-06 and never had a complaint, but won 2 rifles at a DU banquet – a .270WSM and a .300 win mag, so I gave the old .30-06 to my son and have been using these 2 guns for the last 5 years. They are good accurate rifles but I always thought they kicked a little hard for me, but I made the best of it and killed a ton of game with them.
Here is the problem. I had shoulder surgery last year and the recoil of these 2 rifles is now painful enough that I am flinching and finding reasons to not practice and my shooting suffered over the summer. I considered a muzzle break but I HATE the increased noise level on guns with a break. So I ended up borrowing a .243 from a friend and I really liked it. I killed 2 antelope, 3 deer, and a cow and calf elk with it this season. I found it was plenty of gun for deer and antelope out to 302 yards, and the cow elk I shot was at 206 yards (Laser range finder) and went down with a bullet thru the lungs after running maybe 60 yards (I must admit I did felt under gunned on that one!). I was shooting hand loaded 100 grain Accubond bullets and was pretty impressed with them. Because this little rifle is easy on my shoulder I found myself practicing more, flinching less, and shooting with confidence again.
From this past seasons experience I have formed some opinions. Firstly, bullet construction is more important than bullet velocity or energy, and bullet placement is easily the most important factor of all when it comes to killing game.
So here is what I am considering…
I think I am going to sell my .270WSM and .300 win mag. and use that cash to buy a 7mm-08. If the published data is to believed, it kicks more than a .243, but not a ton, and I like the higher BC and weight of the 7mm bullet, it has more energy (a nice edge for the elk and moose I hunt) and shoots plenty flat out to 300 yards – my absolute limit under field conditions. The Remington 700 CDL looks like a nice rifle with enough weight to it, but not too much, and I do like Remington’s.
Does anyone have practical experience with this caliber? What scope would you recommend? I have old Vari-X III Leopold’s on my other rifles and loved them, but saw some of the newer Leopold’s that sit low to the rifle by virtue of a half moon shaped divot in the bell. That intrigues me…anyone have experience with those? Is it worth the extra cash? What power range would you go with? Antelope are really pretty small and I wondered about going to the 4.5-14X scope with the Boone and Crocket reticule over the standard 3.5-10X40's I have used - but do not know if it would be accurately calibrated for bullet drop with the 7mm-08? Would you get a 50MM or 56MM objective on it?
I just want to make good decisions and sure appreciate your input!
daniel
So I could use some good knowledgeable input on a new rifle/scope combination I am considering. But first a little background on what I do as a hunter…
I live in the great state of Wyoming and so hunt a lot of big game here and in Colorado and Montana. I have been here 15 years and always seem to shoot 3-5 mulies, 2-3 antelope, 1-3 elk, and a moose (usually in Canada) every year. I almost never trophy hunt and shoot a lot of cows and does, but if I do happen to draw a good limited-quota tag I’ll hold out for good horns. I have a huge family and we go through the meat over the course of the year so none of this is wasted. I have hunted black bear here in the spring the last 2 years (spot and stalk) although I have yet to harvest one. I seem to do a lot of spot and stalk stuff in the mountains and deserts here.
I hunted for a long time with an old .30-06 and never had a complaint, but won 2 rifles at a DU banquet – a .270WSM and a .300 win mag, so I gave the old .30-06 to my son and have been using these 2 guns for the last 5 years. They are good accurate rifles but I always thought they kicked a little hard for me, but I made the best of it and killed a ton of game with them.
Here is the problem. I had shoulder surgery last year and the recoil of these 2 rifles is now painful enough that I am flinching and finding reasons to not practice and my shooting suffered over the summer. I considered a muzzle break but I HATE the increased noise level on guns with a break. So I ended up borrowing a .243 from a friend and I really liked it. I killed 2 antelope, 3 deer, and a cow and calf elk with it this season. I found it was plenty of gun for deer and antelope out to 302 yards, and the cow elk I shot was at 206 yards (Laser range finder) and went down with a bullet thru the lungs after running maybe 60 yards (I must admit I did felt under gunned on that one!). I was shooting hand loaded 100 grain Accubond bullets and was pretty impressed with them. Because this little rifle is easy on my shoulder I found myself practicing more, flinching less, and shooting with confidence again.
From this past seasons experience I have formed some opinions. Firstly, bullet construction is more important than bullet velocity or energy, and bullet placement is easily the most important factor of all when it comes to killing game.
So here is what I am considering…
I think I am going to sell my .270WSM and .300 win mag. and use that cash to buy a 7mm-08. If the published data is to believed, it kicks more than a .243, but not a ton, and I like the higher BC and weight of the 7mm bullet, it has more energy (a nice edge for the elk and moose I hunt) and shoots plenty flat out to 300 yards – my absolute limit under field conditions. The Remington 700 CDL looks like a nice rifle with enough weight to it, but not too much, and I do like Remington’s.
Does anyone have practical experience with this caliber? What scope would you recommend? I have old Vari-X III Leopold’s on my other rifles and loved them, but saw some of the newer Leopold’s that sit low to the rifle by virtue of a half moon shaped divot in the bell. That intrigues me…anyone have experience with those? Is it worth the extra cash? What power range would you go with? Antelope are really pretty small and I wondered about going to the 4.5-14X scope with the Boone and Crocket reticule over the standard 3.5-10X40's I have used - but do not know if it would be accurately calibrated for bullet drop with the 7mm-08? Would you get a 50MM or 56MM objective on it?
I just want to make good decisions and sure appreciate your input!
daniel
11-30-2009, 10:13 AM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 347
I shoot a .300 Win Mag now but shot a 25-06 for years before that (I have a Remington and a Browning A-Bolt, both are great but I like the Browning better). I hunt Wyoming every year too and have made some great shots with the 25-06. It's accurate, shoots flat and you can shoot it all day long without pain. A bit small for elk I think but with proper shot placement it works. Your 7-08 is fine for all of your game but kicks a bit more, as you found out.
I like Leupold scopes (Well, I like Swavorski but the price is prohibitive) and find for hunting a Vari X III in 3.5x10 50mm covers all of the bases and will not rip your wallet out of your pants. Good luck and eat well!
I like Leupold scopes (Well, I like Swavorski but the price is prohibitive) and find for hunting a Vari X III in 3.5x10 50mm covers all of the bases and will not rip your wallet out of your pants. Good luck and eat well!
12-01-2009, 02:20 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
The 7mm-08 should do you just fine.
I wanted to weigh in on the optics. To me optics can make a HUGE difference in your shooting. That's just my opinion but I have a Nikon Monarch 5.5 - 16.5 x 44 power and I love it. People say you don't need more than 9 power and to some degree that's true but I'll never go back. The problem with 9 power is you don't see your rifle shake near as much. When I'm at 16.5 power I can tell when I'm not steady much better because all of your movement is that much more noticeable. They are real nice on smaller targets too. Good, powerful, clear optics have improved my shooting....I don't care what anyone says. You want something that gathers lots of light, is clear at long ranges, is waterproof and fogproof.
One more thing...some will say that target aquisition is tough with the higher power. It's like anything else....practice makes perfect. I can turn that puppy all the way up and find my target as fast as anyone else. Point the rifle and scope instinctively at your target with both eyes open.....move up to your scope.....close one eye....look through your scope and you're on your target. Works every time.
I wanted to weigh in on the optics. To me optics can make a HUGE difference in your shooting. That's just my opinion but I have a Nikon Monarch 5.5 - 16.5 x 44 power and I love it. People say you don't need more than 9 power and to some degree that's true but I'll never go back. The problem with 9 power is you don't see your rifle shake near as much. When I'm at 16.5 power I can tell when I'm not steady much better because all of your movement is that much more noticeable. They are real nice on smaller targets too. Good, powerful, clear optics have improved my shooting....I don't care what anyone says. You want something that gathers lots of light, is clear at long ranges, is waterproof and fogproof.
One more thing...some will say that target aquisition is tough with the higher power. It's like anything else....practice makes perfect. I can turn that puppy all the way up and find my target as fast as anyone else. Point the rifle and scope instinctively at your target with both eyes open.....move up to your scope.....close one eye....look through your scope and you're on your target. Works every time.
12-02-2009, 11:28 AM
#6
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
We are all partial to our calibers, but may i suggest a .280 rem? I live in Tennessee, but have carried my Ruger M77 chambered in .280 to Sask. for whitetails and to Prince of Wales Island Ak. for black bears. Every whitetail dropped in their tracks, including the big Canadian. The 6 and a half foot black bear took about 4 steps. Using 150 gr Nosler Partition. Little recoil. Second choice would definately be the 7mm-08
12-05-2009, 07:37 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,395
The only 7mm-08 I have ever shot was a Remington Model-7 with a wood stock & stainless barrel. I bought this rifle for my wife thinking the recoil would be light and she would love shooting it.
I found this rifle to be a hard kicker and neither my wife or I liked shooting it at the range. I could have added a limbsaver recoil pad to it but instead I sold it.
I think if the rifle has enough weight and the stock fits you well you will love the 7mm-08.
My wife and I live in Montana, we both have two "go-to" hunting rifles for big game hunting. I use a 270-winchester for deer and antelope, I then switch rifles and carry a 340-Weatherby for elk hunting.
My wife shoots a 280-Remington for deer and antelope, she then switches to her 300-win mag for elk hunting.
I have used other rifles in the past (25-06, 7mm.STW, 300-win mag 30-30 & 375-RUM) I still own the other rifles, they just get very limited use anymore.
I think scopes are a personal choice and the higher I go in magnafication the larger I want the objective lens to be. I think the Leupold Vari X-III or the new VX-3 in 3.5x10x40mm. is a great choice for my hunting in Montana. I also think the Vari X-III or VX-3 in 4.5x14x50mm would be another great choice.
My wife has the Vari X-III 4.5x14x40mm. on her 280-Remington, I have shot this rifle in low light and wish it would gather a little more light for shoots in low light conditions.
I have the Vari X-III 3.5x10x40mm. on my 270-winchester. IMHO the 3.5x10x40MM is a better choice over the 4.5x14x40mm. for shooting at the last few minutes of legal shooting light.
Good luck hunting,
WK
I found this rifle to be a hard kicker and neither my wife or I liked shooting it at the range. I could have added a limbsaver recoil pad to it but instead I sold it.
I think if the rifle has enough weight and the stock fits you well you will love the 7mm-08.
My wife and I live in Montana, we both have two "go-to" hunting rifles for big game hunting. I use a 270-winchester for deer and antelope, I then switch rifles and carry a 340-Weatherby for elk hunting.
My wife shoots a 280-Remington for deer and antelope, she then switches to her 300-win mag for elk hunting.
I have used other rifles in the past (25-06, 7mm.STW, 300-win mag 30-30 & 375-RUM) I still own the other rifles, they just get very limited use anymore.
I think scopes are a personal choice and the higher I go in magnafication the larger I want the objective lens to be. I think the Leupold Vari X-III or the new VX-3 in 3.5x10x40mm. is a great choice for my hunting in Montana. I also think the Vari X-III or VX-3 in 4.5x14x50mm would be another great choice.
My wife has the Vari X-III 4.5x14x40mm. on her 280-Remington, I have shot this rifle in low light and wish it would gather a little more light for shoots in low light conditions.
I have the Vari X-III 3.5x10x40mm. on my 270-winchester. IMHO the 3.5x10x40MM is a better choice over the 4.5x14x40mm. for shooting at the last few minutes of legal shooting light.
Good luck hunting,
WK
Last edited by Wolf killer; 12-05-2009 at 07:50 AM.
12-05-2009, 12:04 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
"...A man's got to know his limitations..."
I'm not familiar with the 7mm-08, though have used the .243 it sounds in near identical circumstances as you have. Considering the 7mm-08's differences on paper between it and the .243, I'd be pretty confident that it'll perform very well. If it weren't for my fondness for the .243, I'd probably own a 7mm-08 (or two, or three, ...)
Though I have higher-powered scopes, I typically don't like them on my deer and elk rifles. As you're likely already aware in Wyoming, one season's hunt may be out in the open sage, and two weeks later you're busting brush. All but one of my big game rifles now wear Vari-X III or VX-2 3-9x glass, the one exception a Vari-X III 1.5-5x. No, you can't see an antelope's nose hairs at 500 yards, but the trade is being able to acquire deer in thick cover at 3x.
I don't have a surgical reason not to be shooting my magnums much anymore. I simply prefer my standards, particularly the .243, 30-06, and .223. My compliments to you for recognizing that you STILL have the ability to take game, even with a smaller cartridge.
I'm not familiar with the 7mm-08, though have used the .243 it sounds in near identical circumstances as you have. Considering the 7mm-08's differences on paper between it and the .243, I'd be pretty confident that it'll perform very well. If it weren't for my fondness for the .243, I'd probably own a 7mm-08 (or two, or three, ...)
Though I have higher-powered scopes, I typically don't like them on my deer and elk rifles. As you're likely already aware in Wyoming, one season's hunt may be out in the open sage, and two weeks later you're busting brush. All but one of my big game rifles now wear Vari-X III or VX-2 3-9x glass, the one exception a Vari-X III 1.5-5x. No, you can't see an antelope's nose hairs at 500 yards, but the trade is being able to acquire deer in thick cover at 3x.
I don't have a surgical reason not to be shooting my magnums much anymore. I simply prefer my standards, particularly the .243, 30-06, and .223. My compliments to you for recognizing that you STILL have the ability to take game, even with a smaller cartridge.
