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RE: Who Voted?
Wow this thread is getting popular...just got on since yesterday at lunch a lot of people are getting in on this..but anyway, kaibab, I am aware of the definition of gun control. And yes, I agree with reasonable measures, such as what we already have. Keeping guns out of convicted criminals hands and things such as that, yes. Another AWB? No. It might not seem like much at the time, but they will slowly use legislation such as this to chip away at our gun rights piece by piece. One day everythings fine, the next ammo is 100 dollars a box, it takesa month to buy a firearm, and you're left scratching your head wondering where the good times went. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into a lot of your opinions. I won't bash you here for that, everyones entitled to their opinion, but don't attempt to come on here and portray me as a simpleton because my beliefs are different from yours. While I don't agree with a lot of your opinions, I have not insulted you in any way, and I ask you to do the same. I have noticed several of your posts seem arrogant and patronizing, not just to me but to everyone who disagrees with you. I'm not trying to start a fight with this thread, I'm just throwing my opinion out there. If you'd like a civilized, intelligent debate, I'm all for it. But don't insult my intelligence. There, I'm done with my little rant. |
RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: StruttinGobbler3 Wow this thread is getting popular...just got on since yesterday at lunch a lot of people are getting in on this..but anyway, kaibab, I am aware of the definition of gun control. And yes, I agree with reasonable measures, such as what we already have. Keeping guns out of convicted criminals hands and things such as that, yes. Another AWB? No. It might not seem like much at the time, but they will slowly use legislation such as this to chip away at our gun rights piece by piece. One day everythings fine, the next ammo is 100 dollars a box, it takesa month to buy a firearm, and you're left scratching your head wondering where the good times went. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into a lot of your opinions. I won't bash you here for that, everyones entitled to their opinion, but don't attempt to come on here and portray me as a simpleton because my beliefs are different from yours. While I don't agree with a lot of your opinions, I have not insulted you in any way, and I ask you to do the same. I have noticed several of your posts seem arrogant and patronizing, not just to me but to everyone who disagrees with you. I'm not trying to start a fight with this thread, I'm just throwing my opinion out there. If you'd like a civilized, intelligent debate, I'm all for it. But don't insult my intelligence. There, I'm done with my little rant. Fair enough…. If I’ve “insulted” you or any other member who is or may be in future participating in this debate, I do apologize, for that was not my intension. But, I would like to point out that there is a fine line between “insulting and questioning” someone’s intelligence; which I did in response to your first post ( which you then quickly corrected ). So, with that said, let’s proceed to be on topic here…… Um… you mentioned that soon pieces of legislation will be passed that you feel will be “chipping away” at your right to bare arms; so this posses as a question for you: To what extent do you feeling your rights are being “chipped away”, and why exactly do you feel a month is an unacceptable time period of waiting until you receive your purchased fire arm? BTW: it’s damn near $100 already to go out and by ammo made by Weatherby, for any type of large caliber rifle… such as .270 and up….. |
RE: Who Voted?
Although this debate is staying at respectable level, in which I have no problems so that is good. However, I have noticed some members, whom I will not say, are leaning more to the personal attacks such as ''your spelling is bad, this and that'', etc, etc, and that will not be allowed. So in short, play nice please :)
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RE: Who Voted?
Yes sir :)
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RE: Who Voted?
Fair enough…. If I’ve “insulted” you or any other member who is or may be in future participating in this debate, I do apologize, for that was not my intension. But, I would like to point out that there is a fine line between “insulting and questioning” someone’s intelligence; which I did in response to your first post ( which you then quickly corrected ). So, with that said, let’s proceed to be on topic here…… Um… you mentioned that soon pieces of legislation will be passed that you feel will be “chipping away” at your right to bare arms; so this posses as a question for you: To what extent do you feeling your rights are being “chipped away”, and why exactly do you feel a month is an unacceptable time period of waiting until you receive your purchased fire arm? BTW: it’s damn near $100 already to go out and by ammo made by Weatherby, for any type of large caliber rifle… such as .270 and up….. |
RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: StruttinGobbler3 No harm done. As you said, back to the topic. As for my rights being "chipped away", as I was talking about in earlier posts, I feelevery piece of legislation making it harder to own a gun falls into this category. Let me put it in a different perspective. Everybody knows the first amendment. Well, what if it was being attacked? The smallest piece of legislation discriminating against thatamendment would cause most people to raise hell, and rightly so. It is in black and white, stating that every citizen is entitled to free speech, so there is no reason to try and find loopholes in it. So thats why I don't understand why gun owners everywhere are not more animated about their rights being slowly eliminated. We wouldn't even consider restrictions on any other amendment in the Bill of Rights, so why do continue to let our government place restrictions on the second amendment? That is the only amendment in the Bill of Rights that is being attacked. What if laws were passed denying women the right to vote? Or denying african americans the right to vote? Would there not be an uproar all around the country? You all know the answer to that. Of course there would be, and there should be, because those rights are clearly stated. As is the second amendment. It clearly states that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, so I don't see why liberals and anti gun organizations insist upon finding loopholes and exceptions. So why aren't we, as hunters andgun owners, not making our voice heard? That is my question. And I agree with you on one point, ammo prices aregetting ridiculous. First and most importantly, I believe it’s important for us to distinguish an obvious difference between “taking away” ( or in your use of words: chipping away ) and “changing”, ( for better or worse, however you see it. ) because I strongly feel that you and others may be taking this too a further extent than what it really is. President Obama and his administration nor Congress is going to take our second amendment away…. It simply won’t happen. These pieces of legislation that you speak of, will be put into place for safety and necessity. Taxing ammo ( I feel ) does not make it harder for one to own a fire arm. If people were as patriotic about the second amendment as they claim to be, then this will not affect their lust for fire arms. I know it’s not going to stop me. Weapon bans of fully automatic weapons and police issued weapons, also should not affect your ability to purchase a gun nor your lust of guns………. And for what reason do you need these guns? Fully automatic guns are in no way a necessity for any person of the public… with an opportunity like that, these guns could fall into the wrong hands; which could lead to devastating attacks across the nation. As far as the rest of amendments listed in the Bill of Rights….. Freedom of speech does not mean that one can just go out yelling profound statements, such as:"Bomb",personal threats of bodily harm to the president,YouSOB, etc…..” Especially in public areas like public and federal buildings, airports, etc……. So in a sense, this “right” has had limitations set upon it………… just like the second amendment will. No chipping away…. Just limitations. |
RE: Who Voted?
[quote]ORIGINAL: kaibab_hunter74
President Obama and his administration nor Congress is going to take our second amendment away…. It simply won’t happen. These pieces of legislation that you speak of, will be put into place for safety and necessity. Taxing ammo ( I feel ) does not make it harder for one to own a fire arm. If people were as patriotic about the second amendment as they claim to be, then this will not affect their lust for fire arms. I know it’s not going to stop me. Weapon bans of fully automatic weapons and police issued weapons, also should not affect your ability to purchase a gun nor your lust of guns………. And for what reason do you need these guns? Fully automatic guns are in no way a necessity for any person of the public… with an opportunity like that, these guns could fall into the wrong hands; which could lead to devastating attacks across the nation. [/quote All right I have been looking at what everyone has been saying for the past few weeks and now it is my turn. The thing is it not that they are not going to take our guns away there is not way in hell possible to do so! But the big deal here is that they are not planning on taking guns away but making it so the rich are the only ones that can buy a gun. The other factor is ammo the is nothing on the books that says they can not take ammo away. Our gov has enough and the right people in office to have it passed so that it is illegal to buy it. These are all possible things that need to be looked at in this time of life. Personally there are other things that our gov needs to worry about then guns and ammo!! The worst part of this all is that the Democrats dont understand yet that no matter what you do the criminals will still have guns and ammo regardless of LAWS they don't. The only things I can really see is the gov wants us to sit there with out protection until the cops come to help. By that time people could be dead. First of all it is a right as a citizen of the United States to own a Gun so that means we should be able to own what ever gun we want. I don't think everyone needs to run around with a full auto gun but we should still have the ability to purchase one not matter what its a RIGHT WE HAVE!!!!! These guns don't fall in the hands through the public either there is this little thing called the Black Market that these criminals get then from. so its just taking guns away form the citizens. The real deal is you give a inch then they want a mile. So don't give then anything! |
RE: Who Voted?
I agree that guns cannot be completely banned. Think of the loss of jobs and industry, which would devastate an economy already taking a nosedive. As for the full automatic weapons you spoke of, I don't see a reason why I need one, but I believe it should be my right to buy one if I choose to. I think what our government fails to realize is that criminals are going to continue to have these illegal weapons no matter how many laws they pass. Thats why they're criminals, they've already shown they have no respect for law and order. So do they really think another gun control bill is going to make them say, uh oh I better not do that. Of course not. All gun control does is endanger the law abiding citizen who needs that gun for protection from these criminals. And as Jome said, when we give an inch they try to take a mile.
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RE: Who Voted?
I don't think our government fails to realize anything when it comes to weapons and criminals. Of course these criminals will be able to aquire a fully automatic weapon if desired ( through a lot of work ).... but what government can do is limit the accessibility, making it much harder for the criminal..... even with back ground checks, some of these corrupt gun dealers will sell these fire arms for cold hard cash under the table..... Flat out ban these weapons. The peoples saftey is much more important than yourright to go blast the side of a hill 500 times with a machine gun.
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RE: Who Voted?
Thats were I will have to disagree is (through a lot of work) these criminals don't work hard at all. Criminals are not the ones that have to go through a back ground check because they know they wont pass. There is this thing I think you missed its call the Black Market. Criminals get a hold of any gun they want to. They don't fill out the paper or agree to follow laws. If anything the gov needs to take hold of the Black Market before they start attacking our rights.
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RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: Jome1 Thats were I will have to disagree is (through a lot of work) these criminals don't work hard at all. Criminals are not the ones that have to go through a back ground check because they know they wont pass. There is this thing I think you missed its call the Black Market. Criminals get a hold of any gun they want to. They don't fill out the paper or agree to follow laws. If anything the gov needs to take hold of the Black Market before they start attacking our rights. Dude, I’m not missing anything…… I didn’t say anything about the black market….. Even if harsh back ground checks were put into place, gun dealers would sell guns under the table…. (last post)>>> “even with back ground checks, some of these corrupt gun dealers will sell these fire arms for cold hard cash under the table..” You also act as if the Black Market operates easily……. It doesn’t, the FBI, CIA, and Secret Service are all over that….. And if banns against fully auto firearms were put into place, efforts from the Department of Homeland Security would increase. |
RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: kaibab_hunter74 ORIGINAL: Jome1 Thats were I will have to disagree is (through a lot of work) these criminals don't work hard at all. Criminals are not the ones that have to go through a back ground check because they know they wont pass. There is this thing I think you missed its call the Black Market. Criminals get a hold of any gun they want to. They don't fill out the paper or agree to follow laws. If anything the gov needs to take hold of the Black Market before they start attacking our rights. Dude, I’m not missing anything…… I didn’t say anything about the black market….. Even if harsh back ground checks were put into place, gun dealers would sell guns under the table…. (last post)>>> “even with back ground checks, some of these corrupt gun dealers will sell these fire arms for cold hard cash under the table..” You also act as if the Black Market operates easily……. It doesn’t, the FBI, CIA, and Secret Service are all over that….. And if banns against fully auto firearms were put into place, efforts from the Department of Homeland Security would increase. Not only does Sears no longer carry guns and ammo, but you can't buy a gun from anyone at all and have it mailed to you. If you wish to buy a gun by mail, you have to have it shipped to a licensed dealer and go through the NICS background check system. Machine guns? The bad guys don't use machine guns. You need something you can conceal. If you ever get mugged, it'll likely beby a guy holding a .22 or a .32. Why small caliber weapons. Because according to the cops, a larger gun can what they call "print." That is they can tell you're packing somehow by the way your clothes hang or whatever. Also smaller guns are cheaper and if you have to throw it away after a job, you're not out as much money. Unfortunately, you're falling for all the anti-gun propaganda. "Reasonable" gun control right? Noting wrong with "reasonable" gun control is there? Then one day you get up in the morning and find out on the news that your gun is no longer "reasonable." Why? Well maybe because it uses "cop-killer" bullets like every .30 caliber rifle out there. Or maybe it's because it has a black plastic stock. And we all know that a .223 with a black plastic stock is dangerous as opposed to a .223 with a walnut stock. Uh oh, turns out a .223 with a walnut stock is just as dangerous as one with a black plastic stock.We have to ban those too. And does anyone really "need" a gun that shoots "cop-killer" bullets? We better ban them too. I could go on but you get the idea. I hope.  |
RE: Who Voted?
I really don't know what to say about this at all the thing is there are bigger things in this country to worry about but yet we are still concernd about the little things in life. Don't get me wrong I love this country and would defend it if I had to. Everyone talks about how great it is to live in this country with our freedoms and everything. But at school we had a group of foreign exchange students come and tell us they felt sorry for the USA. So either we need to change the way things are going her or get the chance to be on the outside looking in at this country. All I know is this nation is going down hill rather fast and if this gov does nothing to change it we all might not be here debating about what guns we should and should not own.
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RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: daddyslittlegirl ORIGINAL: kaibab_hunter74 ORIGINAL: Jome1 Thats were I will have to disagree is (through a lot of work) these criminals don't work hard at all. Criminals are not the ones that have to go through a back ground check because they know they wont pass. There is this thing I think you missed its call the Black Market. Criminals get a hold of any gun they want to. They don't fill out the paper or agree to follow laws. If anything the gov needs to take hold of the Black Market before they start attacking our rights. Dude, I’m not missing anything…… I didn’t say anything about the black market….. Even if harsh back ground checks were put into place, gun dealers would sell guns under the table…. (last post)>>> “even with back ground checks, some of these corrupt gun dealers will sell these fire arms for cold hard cash under the table..” You also act as if the Black Market operates easily……. It doesn’t, the FBI, CIA, and Secret Service are all over that….. And if banns against fully auto firearms were put into place, efforts from the Department of Homeland Security would increase. Not only does Sears no longer carry guns and ammo, but you can't buy a gun from anyone at all and have it mailed to you. If you wish to buy a gun by mail, you have to have it shipped to a licensed dealer and go through the NICS background check system. Machine guns? The bad guys don't use machine guns. You need something you can conceal. If you ever get mugged, it'll likely beby a guy holding a .22 or a .32. Why small caliber weapons. Because according to the cops, a larger gun can what they call "print." That is they can tell you're packing somehow by the way your clothes hang or whatever. Also smaller guns are cheaper and if you have to throw it away after a job, you're not out as much money. Unfortunately, you're falling for all the anti-gun propaganda. "Reasonable" gun control right? Noting wrong with "reasonable" gun control is there? Then one day you get up in the morning and find out on the news that your gun is no longer "reasonable." Why? Well maybe because it uses "cop-killer" bullets like every .30 caliber rifle out there. Or maybe it's because it has a black plastic stock. And we all know that a .223 with a black plastic stock is dangerous as opposed to a .223 with a walnut stock. Uh oh, turns out a .223 with a walnut stock is just as dangerous as one with a black plastic stock.We have to ban those too. And does anyone really "need" a gun that shoots "cop-killer" bullets? We better ban them too. I could go on but you get the idea. I hope.
I don’t know where to begin with this irregular and “fact free” opinion. I’m going to refrain from commenting on your first two paragraphs…. For they have nothing to do with anything, and makes no point. “The bad guys don’t use machine guns.”………. what on earth are you talking about? Here is a couple of news clips and stories to refresh your mind…… ( also the difference between fully auto gun and machine guns is nothing….. Except caliber…. So don’t exclude AK’s and AR’s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqfrr26yTSY http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003468090_webranger08.html Also, don’t forget about he Mobsters in the 20’s!!!! Yea, they used Thompson’s….. ( Valentines Day Massacre ) maybe you don’t know…… lol Now to the really dumb comment……… I’m not falling for any propaganda….. You and other gun enthusiasts believe in so much garbage it’s incredible. Like I’ve said numerous times already…. Yours, mine, and the other gun owners in America will not have their guns taken away….. The Judicial branch would NEVER pass legislation like that…. There are too many 2nd amendment supporters in this country! I don’t know how you people can possibly have a good day, when you’re so constantly paranoid all the time. A black plastic stock isn’t a good example for your argument…… My family has an AR…. .223 caliber with a black plastic stock…. It’s a semi-auto…. Not a fully auto. So the black plastic stock has nothing to do with anything. They are totally legal. So do I get your idea? No... you provided a statement full of exaggerated claims and no facts. ( excluding your first two paragraphs ) |
RE: Who Voted?
SPEAKING OF MACHINE GUNS!!!! YOU DIDN'T MISS THE SHOOT OUT IN ARIZONA TODAY DID YA?????
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RE: Who Voted?
First of hall there is a differens in full auto and a machine gun. One is shot from the shoulder and the other is mounted. After a few of your comments i have come to believe you just follow all your little die/hard liberals arounds and listen to all the garbage also.That plastic stock you talk about and say its has nothing to do with any thing then why did ur democrat Bill Clinton deside they had to ban then lets hear about that one???? The other thing is you and all ur D-Rats are still stuck in the past talking about the Mobsters. The gov back then was smart enough to take care of that problem but now with all these rats in office noting can get done but just take them all way. If the gov had any BRAINS the would just enforce the laws we have on the books now and there you go problem solved. This gov cares more about the criminals then about its citizens. I guess you think it is wrong to kill someone that killed someone.
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RE: Who Voted?
ORIGINAL: Jome1 First of hall there is a differens in full auto and a machine gun. One is shot from the shoulder and the other is mounted. After a few of your comments i have come to believe you just follow all your little die/hard liberals arounds and listen to all the garbage also.That plastic stock you talk about and say its has nothing to do with any thing then why did ur democrat Bill Clinton deside they had to ban then lets hear about that one???? The other thing is you and all ur D-Rats are still stuck in the past talking about the Mobsters. The gov back then was smart enough to take care of that problem but now with all these rats in office noting can get done but just take them all way. If the gov had any BRAINS the would just enforce the laws we have on the books now and there you go problem solved. This gov cares more about the criminals then about its citizens. I guess you think it is wrong to kill someone that killed someone. God, if this is the best argument you can come up with… then your future as far as guns go, are in a world of trouble….. Lol….. Ever hear of the M249 SAW?????? I guess not, that’s why don’t know what you’re talking about… here’s a link for you. ( there are plenty more guns I can find for you as well ) http://revver.com/video/1151442/us-marine-shooting-m249-saw/ Little die/hard liberals????? For one, little doesn't mean anything.... incase you didn't know (which I'm positive you don't) the Dems. have almost full control of the Government right now. Who's choice was that? the PEOPLE of the United States who ELECTED them.... you know nothing about politics.... if you wish tohave an intellegent arguement... then at least come prepared. I don't know much about his ban.... but it obviously didn't do much if what you say is true..... because my family has one, and so do millions of others..... so what's the point? D-Rats???? Is that something your Red Neck father says? Stuck in the past??? This clearly proves that you know nothing about current politics and economics and quite frankly our nation. These "D-Rats" you speak of, are currently fixing the last 8 years of mess-up's caused by the same old, worn down, failed policies of the Republicans..... I can tell you right now, that you would be ( I say would, because you don't know what you're talking about... you speakout using your parents words ) part of the minority in this country, and most of the world..... The people ELECTED the Dems...... like I said before.... FIXING.... We are getting something done, I suggest you watch the news sometime kid. As for the last sentence.... I'm not going to even respond to something so outrageous. |
RE: Who Voted?
Sorry DLG, gotta lock this one down: Few people still aren't getting the 'no personal attacks' part just yet.
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