Next Year Spikes?
 

This year on my Step dad's land (80) acres. I've been passing up spikes. He has nothing planted on it, but am going to start planting this spring. Last season I shot a spike and a four point. This year I have decided to let them walk. If I plant this year, what should I expect to see next year? A four point is the biggest deer I've seen this year. I know there's bigger deer there, but can't seem to catch them. Next year I plan on letting the 4 and 6's walk, but can't make any promises. I like to pull the trigger. :) So will these spikes next year be 4 and 6's?

Chad

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Those Spikes & Forks could (should) be nice sized 6 or 8 point bucks next season - and they should weigh 20-40 lbs more.

Its good that you are consdiering voluntary restrictions - I wish more people would - It would be good all the way around.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Hi Chad,

There is really too many variables at work here. You can't really predict how many points a spike will have the next year. Genetics, forage avaiability, disease, weather, minerals and many other things all play a part in antler growth so I would just plant your food plots and see what happens.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

BA -

Don't you think that "Generally speaking" - Young bucks that survive thier first hunting season - will increase antler size/points and add weight?

Sure some examples of exceptions are around - but...... Generally speaking...... ?

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

One thing is for sure,if you shoot them, they will never get any bigger. Why not just shoot a doe if you want meat. You have to sacrifice if you want to see bigger Bucks.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Yes I do. But they won't be 4 or 6 points the next year... unless he means 2 x 2 as a 4 point. Damn you eastern folk and your screwed up antler counting. I thought he meant a 4 point as in 4 x 4. Generally a spike will add points the next year but not always. But at least some of them should.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

I wished the guys on the surrounding property would do the same. I'm gonna try to talk to them if I ever see them. I hear them shot every now and then, and I just hate to think they're shooting these young deer.

Chad

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

i would shoot the spikess and not worry about it, but then i don't care to practise qdm, either. but, here's a question for you to think on.. i remember my grandfather telling me how one year, he shot a spike, yet when they measured the longest horn, it was only 2 and 7/8" long, 1/8 too short to report. so, he put it in the barn, and since he did slaughtering for the neighbors, he had a scale. when they weighed the deer, it pushed, field dressed, 198lbs. the following year, believe it or not, same deal, spike killed, horns only 2 and 3/4" that year. this one weighed in at 195. so in a case like that, and i admit that those were two exceptions to the rule, do you let them walk, and in which case they most likely would never be more than what they were, or take them? by the way, the spike i got this year weighed in at 130lbs, fieldressed, larger than the six i took two years ago by 4 pounds.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Used to shoot every spike I saw. But that was when I was young and listened to all the advice. Have formed some other opinions by now with some added age to me....

Bottom line having killed many many many spikes, I have rarely seen a spike that was age 2.5 or older. Sure I've shot some. But I don't ever recall shooting one that was 3.5 years old. And I've seen many shot on a place I guided for a number of years. Same thing.

I'm not saying they are/are not inferior but after guiding I choose to cull deer on an age basis. Believing fully that most bucks don't get much of a chance to breed till they are 2.5 -3.5 years old and by then I can guage quality.

On the other hand I've also seen a 13 point that was 1.5 years old. Such a tiny rack but many points already. Main frame 10 with stickers. So 1.5 year olds can have more than spikes.

All I've offered is only food for thought.

BTW if I were you I'd talk to some of the surrounding folks in the off season- don't bother them close to or during season. Kinda feel them out and tell them your intentions. Sometimes you can even start a wildlife coop that way. Which is good whether you meat hunt, trophy hunt or both. FWIW does have always eaten very well for me....

Jeff

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Lets not let this wander to a shoot or don't shoot spikes debate. There is already plenty of info in other topics were this has been pretty heavily debated.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Dont shoot spikes!! Sorry couldn't resist. Normally speaking a yearling spike will grow several more points the following year. Of couse this depends on nutrition. A deer uses it's food supply first for maintaining a healthy body if there are any nutirients left they go to antler production. So adding a food plot will only help your deer heard. Give it a shot, you having nothin to lose and lots to gain!!

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the antler growing season is roughly 200 dyas long. Deer need 15%+ protein in their diet to reach their potential antler growth. If you're planting next year you will find that better then 100 days of the antler growing season will have elapsed before your plots are producing the amount of forage needed to produce exceptional antlers. This means it may be two years before you see real results unless you can supliment their diet early in the year with a high protein produce like 30.06w/ protien or something of the like. It'll also take the deer time to fins your plots and start feeding their regularly if there are other food sources to be had.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Okee Dokee but he wondered what happened to them. I was just giving what I've seen and noted what I do as a sidebar. Decision is always up to the shooter.

Used to hunt with a guy that shot the first 4 deer he would see. He was finished one opening morning in about 30 minutes. Whatever floats yer boat.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Well the spikes I have been seeing aren't weighing much over 100 pounds. I will and have shot a lot of Cow Horn spikes. If a buck has spikes over 8 or 9 inches, I will look real close to see if he is an older deer. The past 3 or 4 seasons I have shot these deer. And even though there are a few deer bigger, its been really hard to find them. I'm just trying to put the percentages in my favor to see bigger deer. I've hunted this place hard this year and only seen one deer with more than 2 points. Something has to change and thats what I'm doing this year.

Chad

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Wonder if you had shot nothing the last few years, if you'd see bucks with more points? Just a thought. There is definitely no way they'll be larger than a spike if they are dead.

I do see many more spikes in dry years or seasons. And the more mature deer are also worse off antler wise. Then you get to good wet years, they all grow better, but then there is so much forage they are all hard to see.

So many different thought trains. Who knows if any of us are wrong or right.

I do know that after effecting the management program we decided on that we went from a few 10-12 inch 8 points and a bunch of 4-6 point deer, that after 6 years we rarely saw a spike, sans the dry years, and saw a few 3-7 point deer but a bunch of 8-10 point deer, more bucks, larger body size etc..... Largest deer shot first year was 12 inch 8 point. By the 4-7th years we had a number of 17-18 inch deer, a few at about 20 that we could not get shots at, and most were definitely multi point. And go from hunting a long time to see a deer to seeing multiple bucks each time out. Funny the dang results sound just like a few studies.

I"m sure results in other parts of the country could be way different.

Jeff

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

What state do you live in DHC? What kind of habitat do you have and what do your neighbors have for habitat? Do you have good thickets for browse and cover? On only 80 acres if you don't have the cover to hold an older buck,when the guns start blazin, chances are not too many will make it past 1.5 years old.
Just a few thoughts.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

The 80 acres is part Hardwood swamp bottom and a hill with standing pines with thickets underneath the pines. The neighbors on two sides is 4 yr. cutover. And the other sides is swamp and pasture. Early in the year we have a lot of deer in the hardwoods. After rain and freeze the deer seem to move more to the pines and thickets. The last two or three years I've only killed one or two bucks and one or two does each year. I believe my neighbors are killing most of the deer. Although I've seen a lot of deer this year, I haven't seen any racks only spikes.

Chad

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

Wow-- you must have a high deer density to be able to shoot up to 4 deer a year off of 80 acres. Where I'm at I'd only consider shooting a deer every other year on 100 acres. I"m not sure our exact count lately.

When we hunted where the deer density was much higher it was still suggested to take 1 mature buck and a few does off of 200 acres. It was implied you needed 150 acres per mature buck per year. We actually would shoot something like 10-14 deer a year off of 200 acres and could tell we were thinning the deer out a bit.

I'm wondering if you aren't overharvesting for your patch of the woods. I"m just thinking here you are taking a max of 1 deer per 20 acres of land. What is the suggested harvest rate in your area from the biologist? And if your neighbors are doing the same, you may never see more than a spike hardly as nothing will ever reach past 1.5 years old before it dies.

Another thought is the PH level in the pines. Maybe your food plots will need to be limed to have a palatble taste to the deer?? I"m no expert on this but I"m trying to learn on the palatibilty. After all you can have the best food plots but if the neighbors is sweeter.....

BTW for a learning experience cut out the jaw of each deer you shoot, tag it as to what it is, then take to the biologist to actually age them. You may well find that length of spikes doesn't always indicate anything about age.

Jeff

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

I can post some information on aging deer by tooth wear/eruption if such is needed. It's fairly simple and you don't need to be a biologist to do it though it does help.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

wow 200 lb spikes ummm ok maybe one i would believe but two and they only had less than 3" spikes nope cant go with that one.

RE: Next Year Spikes?
 

We take alot of bucks off of the ranches each year, most of them being mature "management bucks". I can only remember 4-5 spikes being killed that were 2 1/2 or older. Now this is over a long period of time and thousands of acres of land. Spikes will normally always improve in years to follow. But alot of people (myself included) believe that a spike will never produce the same size of antlers as a buck the same age, but who had multiple points his first year. Most of the 1 1/2 year old bucks we see are 4-6 pointers with some being 8 pointers. On most of the land that I hunt, we pass on 1 1/2 year old spikes, but I believe that we end up killing most of them in future years as "management" bucks. Meaning even though we gave them time to mature, they still didnt turn into our defintion of a trophy buck.

I wish somebody in south Texas would do a long term study on free ranging 1 1/2 year old spikes. Use a helicopter to net the bucks, ear tag them, put a chip behind there ear for ID reasons, then turn them loose and see how many turn into "trophy" bucks after they reached there prime of 5 1/2-7 1/2 years old. I bet they would find most of these deer to be 8-10 pointers scoring less then 140" (which in some areas would be a heck of a buck), although I'm sure there would be a few that turn into really nice bucks.............