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Our clover/rye plot...don't fix what's not broken?

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Our clover/rye plot...don't fix what's not broken?

Old 03-05-2010, 06:05 AM
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Nontypical Buck
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Default Our clover/rye plot...don't fix what's not broken?

One of our very well established clover/rye plots is nearing the end of its perennial life cycle (it's ladino clover). This plot is ~.75 acre and has been limed and fertilized over the past 10 years (we've planted a wide variety of things from corn, to turnips, to clover). We're currently entering season 4 of our clover stand, and here is what it looked like in the fall of this past season:



I shot a very nice buck here in late October, and the deer are hitting it regularly even now (there are left over shoots of winter wheat and a few brassicas remaining from last years planting that they're hitting still). To put it bluntly, this plot is working.

Maybe it's my curious nature, but I'm considering a somewhat alternative to this planting this spring.

I'm thinking of tilling this up, replanting in ladino with rape and possibly a nurse crop for the rape. However, my question is this. However, even though the chicory will effectively be more palatable longer into the summer, since it produces so much forage, do I have to worry about over-competition of the clover in the early growing stages? It's recommended to use a grass as a cover crop for the chicory, but I want to plant winter wheat in August not in the spring when I would normally plant the cover with the chicory.

Any suggestions here? Should I just stick with the rye/clover combination? I would really like to get winter wheat and some chicory in there (no turnips which is why I'm leaning toward rape) for late fall/early winter.
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:45 PM
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I like Buck Forage Oats with clover. I have to plant the oats in the fall, but the clover reseeds. Mine is in about the 5th or so year.
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:49 PM
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I agree with the oats. They will mature by August. If you are happy with what you are doing and it works for you, I would only experiment on a part of the plot.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:23 AM
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First of all, congratulations on killing a shooter and that is a beautiful picture and food plot!

I'm not sure I follow the question about the rape and chicory though. Did you want to include both with the ladino replanting or just chicory?

Rape is better suited as a late summer planting where it can grow and mature as the weather cools. It doesn't like the heat of late spring/summer and with the long days, it will rapidly mature and become useless to the deer. Plus, I consider rape or any brassica as unwanted competition with newly planted clover.

Chicory and clover planted together makes a great combo though. During the heat of summer and especially dry spells when the clover struggle's, the chicory will still be producing and attracting deer. But as you mentioned, over time the clover will crowd out the chicory. Since your clover stand has some age on it, frost seeding chicory now or in the next few weeks might be an option.

Earlier, you had mentioned a new plot going in a old pasture. If that is still the plan, then I would definitely keep this plot going for at least another year.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:21 AM
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You could also frost seed ladino clover back into your plot if you think the clover is getting thin. Now is about the right time to try that as well.
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:46 PM
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Haystack and Soilman, and Timbercruise, thanks for the input. In fact, I asked this question over on QDMA as well, and they suggested just as you did (to frost seed additional Ladino in). In fact I think that's what I'm going to do, and concentrate my experiments on my other plot Haystack mentioned.

As for my initial plan? I was planning to get rye and/or chicory into the spring planting with Rape being planted late august.

Last edited by MGH_PA; 03-06-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:54 PM
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they make a seed planter you can rent to pull behind a tractor and even for 4 wheelers, i used a hand one..hard werk btw that will plant seeds without having to till it up, thus leaving what ya got there thats obviously working and help introduce something different...i would do like .25 acre one kind ..then do .25 of an acre something else and so on and see where ya end up moving your tree stand..don't forget to write it on paper, cause i used a hand seeder to do mine and cant remember what was what lol..
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:01 PM
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I was planning to get rye and/or chicory into the spring planting with Rape being planted late august.


Gotcha. That's the time to plant rape.

I've never tried planting winter rye in the spring, it might work, I just don't know. Oats is commonly planted in the spring and I've always had good luck using them as a nurse crop for alfalfa and clover. In the Mid-Atlantic states, we have available both winter hardy oats and spring oats. The spring oats is cheaper priced and better suited for a spring nurse crop. The winter hardy oats (including buck forage oats) is a much more leafy and low growing type of oat. They would still work, but you've got to reduce the seeding rate.

Back to the above plot. Frost seeding most but not all clovers is a very effective way to keep a clover plot going. The freezing-thawing process has a way of making seed to soil contact almost perfect. The chicory frost seeded into your clover plot would work well also. Chicory loves nitrogen and you can bet that plot is loaded with nitrogen. Keep in mind there are several varieties of chicory. Puna and WINA chicory is the only two I've tried, but if I were to plant it again Forage Feast would be the one I'd try due to the slow to bolt characteristics.

I'm waiting for the right opportunity to frost seed some Durana clover now. I checked a plot today, but it's just to wet and its unlikely it will get below freezing this week. I'm not complaining about the warm up though And there will be some below freezing mornings ahead.



I did manage to find a shed laying in the plot. Small, but got me fired up

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Old 03-07-2010, 04:19 AM
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Matt, I hope the plot goes well for you this year, and you get great growing conditions. Common winter rye will grow in the spring, but most of it will not head out, it needs to over winter for that. There are varieties of rye that will head out if spring seeded as well, but they are tough to find and you are not growing rye for grain yield anyhow. I plan to frost seed some Alice white clover next weekend. Unlike haystack, we have 18 inches of snow yet!
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:17 AM
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Question regarding frost seeding. We're having quite the warm-up here in PA with temps forecasted to stay in the low to mid 50s through the week with lows in the upper 30s and low 40s at night. Obviously this isn't the freeze/thaw cycle I would like for frost seeding, but the long term forecast isn't showing any change ahead. Can I risk the temps now since I'm just applying a "top coat" to my existing stand, or will it be a waste if we're not getting true below freezing nights?
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