NYhick

I live and hunt in the adirondacks of NY. I hunt in a camp with 5 other guys and we have 100 acres surrounded by other camps with hundreds more acres that we can hunt. I am fairly new to the camp but I have noticed that there are soooooo many does and so few bucks that it's scary. The guys from my camp and the others around us shoot any buck that they see and are totally against shooting does. I am looking at joining this camp as an investment so that when my sons grow up (2yrs, 3mo) they will have a quality place to hunt with their old man. I fear that this is a non attainable goal without some help. Does anyone know of a good article that talks about the necessity to harvest does in order to maintain a good buck to doe ratio and create a good hunting property. These are stubborn men I am dealing with who believe "does make bucks" and who's old school mentality is essentially ruining the land and the hunting. Any help is appreciated!

NYhick

Oh yeah, the article is to pass out to the other guys so they may see the light.....

farm hunter

http://www.qdma.com/articles/detail.asp?ID=86

This is one of many out ther.

good luck.

Dan O.

farm hunter; how does it work with shooting does in NY? Do you need a special doe tag, is it an either/or license for everyone, or can you purchase 2 licenses?

Dan O.

farm hunter

Dan,

NY has kind of turned 180 degrees on Doe harvest now, with alot of public input, and more sound managment in the last few years. 15 years ago, we used to have to apply for a chance at a doe permit, usually with a partner, and we would share one tag for the season. Starting this year, if you take advantage of the bow and blackpowder season, one person can take 4 or 5 deer, depending on if you were selected for a second doe permit or not, and there is no more "party permits" Of the 4 tags I got this year, 2 must be does, one is an either sex tag, and one is buck only. Were I selected for the second doe permit, 3 of my deer would have had to be does. Some of these tags must be used in either bow or BP season, but that is fine with me. Probably the next biggest change in the system allows a hunter to have up to 2 additional "doe permits" signed over to him by hunting partners. It used to be there was no sharing of permits, but we all did it anyway, so the law was changed.

The 6 hunters that we hunt with regularly have between us, have 26 tags this year to be used in the seasons ranging from Oct 15 - Dec 22. That is more than twice the tags we've had, even in recent years. Plus, we can have up to 12 additional doe tags signed over to us from freinds that do not fill their tags. There should be no reason for us not to harvest as many does as we feel we need to from now on.

Hats off to the DEC for the changes - As NYhick has pointed out - there are still alot of "oldworld" hunters out there that do not understand the need for Doe harvest, - The DEC has been making a real effort this year to try to change some of these longheld beliefs, and regulations.

Dan O.

It sounds like we're about 15 years behind you. We have to apply for a doe/buck tag in a draw. It's good for 1 deer only. If you lose in the draw you get a buck only tag. Some areas allow you to buy a second, buck only, tag. The deer population is taking off in those areas.

Maybe in a few years we'll change our thinking.

Dan O.

Cleeby

Hi Guys,

Just a note from PA. Man FH the good ole empire state is really done an about face. In PA over the past 30 years a hunter was only allowed one deer per season. In the past few years (with several different game commission leaders) our hunters have had an opportunity to harvest up to four deer. This year your purchased back tag license is an antlered license and you must submit separately for a doe only permit. Depending on the county you may be able to buy extra unsold doe permits if there are any available after they offer them for sale, then you can apply for another given there are any left. Our county (Bradford) sold out of doe licences after the second application period.

This year I can actually get three deer. One buck & two doe or three doe if I don't kill a buck in our concurrent buck doe season. Then with the proper muzzleloader license your buck tag can be used as a doe tag in the flintlock season after christmas. Kind of confusing.

NYhick, to answer your questions with a little more depth, consider joining QDMA. They have a great amount of resource to back your opinions up with. FH put you on the trail of an article that was in their published magazine "Quality Whitetails". It is a challange to change the old school hunter mentality, but it can be done, right guys.

Kevin C.

FlDeerman

I guess you guys don't want to hear about the Sunshine State,two deer a day all seasons.This year we are haveing a doe week not just a doe weekend like we've had befor.
We've been shooting all the does we can and the hunting has gotten better and the bucks bigger.Can't belive there are still"old world hunters"out there.

Hunting is not a sport,it's a lifestyle.

lunchbucket

Ol' Wives tales die hard. It's hard to think that grandpa and dad really didn't know what they were talking about in the deer nutrition area. Until the QDM thing started, and believe it or not bovine TB and Mitch Rompola, deer nutrition was like antler scoring, limited to us freaks... Start leaving some info laying around during the hunt. The young guys will pick up on it and then the geezers will eventually come around. If you do not see some "bending" in the right direction in the next year you may be well advised to look else where for a lease/company.
A good arguement is that a mature deer will eat 2-5 lb per day per head. Ask the gents how much quality eats do they thing are available. The less the does the more available the nutrient. Start asking some retorical questions and drop some subtle hints out loud. Read some tibits from some articles out loud when things are quiet... Believe me, it works... It take 3.5 - 4.5 years for a buck to mature, do the
math... Get some info from different vendors and leave the info laying around.

Romans 10:9 Psalms 42

WV Hunter

I feel for you on that one. It is a tough sell, but you can do it. In WV where I hunt it was very similar to what FH said of NY years ago. Now, in recent years, the doe population has skyrocketed, and only in the last few years has the DNR figured out they goofed by protecting all those does. On our place, we used to see as many as 80-100 does a day sometimes, and be lucky if there was a scrub buck running in the bunch. I remeber seeing 42 in single file one time....all does with a 3&quot; spike bringing up the rear. <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> That's just the way it was. You hunted hard all season just to see a buck. About 4 years ago the DNR made some big changes...extending doe seasons, and raising the bag limits. We started shooting as many as we could. We've shot about 30 or so for the last 4 seasons, and limited our buck harvest to only &quot;a nice one&quot;, which ends up being only a few each season. What has happened is that now, we still have alot of does...not as many as we would, but still quite a few, and the buck population and # of 2.5-4.5 yr olds is way up <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Funny thing too...is each year for the last 4 years the DNR has raised the Bag limit on does...imagine that. I wish now that they would do what some of the other states are doing with their &quot;earn a buck&quot; programs where you have to shoot a doe first, before you are allowed a buck. Good luck!