RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

1st Post:

I've looked at this website for over two years now with a great deal of interest in this particular forum. I've learned alot, I think.

You guys are great but I've taken some of the advice listed and had mixed results. Where I've run into problems is trying to blend my own seed mixes and make my own licks. Forget it. I'm sure it works for some but after traveling all over IA looking for the different seeds and all the mineral additives, what I've figured out is give me something that's easy to purchase and is proven and forget trying to save $5.

I know I could save money brewing my own beer too but I like Bud. Even if it COSTS A LITTLE MORE.

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

I also think that 30-06 is alot of hype. I havent had a chance to compare the manna all purpose mineral that I get at fleet farm for $7 for a 50lb bag against 30-06 but I have compared it with other so called "deer Minerals" out there and the amts in the bag are either exactly the same or in some cases a lot better

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

Lee, I don't know what's in the $7 all purpose mineral you use but I sense hostility when you say you don't know what's in 30-06 Plus but you think it's hype. In my opinion a product that works should be hyped..... and it works, at least for me. I've seen increases in my 2 and 3 year old antler mass over the past 3 years.

Do your research and find out what's in it then make your comments. By the way you can't find out the formula from the tag. I would be very interested to see your comparison.

Lee, I've only posted comments a couple times here but from the posts I've followed for the last couple years, this forum is for the non-informed to ask questions of the informed. Also for the informed to discuss different managementthoughts and ideas. You, as the uninformed get to watch this and learn. Maybe one day you and I can be oneof the informed. (LOL)

Neither of us is a mineral expert (I know I'm not)but I know enough about tagging of feed and mineral products to know that there is no way to duplicate a mineral or feedwith just the info on the tag. The micro-nutrient package and sources of the nutrients and vitamins is just as important if not more than the levels of minerals on the tag. By the way the salt content is 15% in my 30-06 Plus Protein. Not much compared to what I looked at in the co-op yesterday. They ranged from 70% to 98%.

I asked the guy behing the counterwhich to use and he recommended the 98.9% salt product. WOW, the value of info you get when you trust the guy behind the counter.



Otis

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

The great thing about these kind of forums is that two experts( at least people who think they know things) can discuss and compare there two ideas. After all I am just an idiot I mean all i am doing is bascilly spending money on a bag of rocks and minnerals then dumping that bag on the ground and hopeing that a buck will get huge from it and walk by mind stand this fall.

Here is the primer for the fight

30-06 vs. farm minerals

30-06
Pros: Developed by scientist, biologist or whomever made specificly for deer.
Been tested for deer only
comes from a very well known company that is trusted by a lot of people (albeit not by me)
Cons: is kinda expensive
Do we really know that it is a whole lot better than farm minerals
Do we really know that minerals really help deer that much?

Farm minerals
Pros: Wildly available and can get almost anywhere (reduced shipping costs)
Relativly cheap
contains the basic core ingredients as 30-06 and wich the WTI has said are important to deer
Cons: it is cheap but are the ingredients also cheap (http://www.whitetailinstitute.com/info/news/jan03/buyerbeware2.html)
Made essentially for cows, are the ratios of the different minerals the most benificiul to deer?
Do we really know that minerals really help deer that much?

any other pros and cons to these please add

I have asked WTI so email me the ratios in the 30-06 mis as well as the ingredients. under minnesota law they are required to give them to me whether they will that is another ? and I will get the tag off the bag of mana that I bought.

isnt the sharing of ideas great

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

Figure 1




Mineral

Functions

Deficiencies


Calcium

Antler production and mineralization, milk production, bone formation, muscle contraction, hormone secretion

Hormonal irregularities, decreased milk supply, stunted antler growth, weak bone structure and antlers


Phosphorus

Antler production and mineralization, milk production, bone formation, role in many metabolic functions

Metabolic disorders, decreased milk supply, stunted antler growth, weak bone structure and antlers


Magnesium

Energy-fat-protein metabolism, enzyme activation, antler and bone integrity

Reduction in forage digestibility, weight loss, weak bone and antler structure


Potassium

Osmotic balance between cells and body fluids, acid-base equilibrium, water balance, oxygen and CO2 transport

Decreased feed intake and subsequent weight loss, nervous disorders, paralysis, muscular weakness


Sodium

Major cation of extracellular fliud, osmotic balance, acid-base balance

Low body temp, shivering, death, diarrhea, poor coat color


Chloride

Major anion of extracellular fluid, osmotic balance, acid-base balance, component of HCL in digestion

Low body temp, shivering, death, diarrhea, poor coat color


Iron

Component of enzymes, metal chelate of hemoglobin

Anemia, weight loss, impaired brain and immune function


Zinc

Synthesis of DNA, RMA and proteins, component of co-factor of many enzymes, found to be vital in antler development, hoof health and immunity

Rough hair coat and hair loss, weight loss, impaired wound healing, stunted antler growth


Manganese

Bone and antler formation, energy metabolism, enzyme activation

Reduced growth and weight loss, impaired reproduction and muscle weakness


Copper

Necessary for hemoglobin and melanin formation, component of several blood proteins and enzyme systems, antler growth, immunity

Anemia, diarrhea, loss of hair color, bone deformities


Iodine

Hormones, thyroxine and triodothyronine

Reduced energy metabolism, reduce growth, dwarfism


Selenium

Interacts with vitamin to maintain tissue integrity, immunity

Nutritional muscular dystrophy, reduced fertility, reduced disease resistence


Cobalt

Synthesis of vitamin B12

Anemia, wasting away disease

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

Lee you mentioned a fight, if you typed the last email from memory, I give up.

What I know is the 30-06 is working for me. I buy it locally and pay a good price for it but whatI know is the fact that my deer have increased in age class size and antler production. We take great pains to age and measure each animal, buck or doe and record it. I attribute that to the minerals. We haven't done anything else different in the last 3 years. I'm spending over $17,000 a year on my lease, equipment, 4 wheeler, 4 wheel drive pick-up, time away from worketc. If something is working, and 30-06 is,and it costs another $100 bucks a year, (if that much) I don't care. I would save that much buying gas at Sams instead of BP.

I guess if your hunting is based on how cheap you can hunt, and it may for some, then they still build wagons and you can buy a horse to pull it. I'm sure you don't do that but you could save enough money to buy your 30-06.

My hunting expenditures are based on the fact that at 51 years old, I have about 10-15 years of hard hunting left (in my lifetime). Saving money is not my objective. Hell, I don't golf, that has to save me almost enough to cover my hunting.

As far as the web address you mentioned in your mail. That was interesting. Where did that come from? Was it an article on the web or was it in a magazine. I would like to read more stuff like that. Makes sense and certainly makes the point that with the little bit of cash you could save, is it worth the chance?

As I opened with in this post, I give up. I'm not well-versed and able to offer much on how each item in the Table of Elements works and effects or affectsdeer. Don't have time to learn it and by the time I did, who cares.

If you want to use manno mineral, I applaude you for trying to save a buck or two but I want the best. If it costs a little more then so be it.

When asked by my doc at lasts check up how was my sex life, I told him mine was working, I hope his is. Same to you.

I hope you deer improve on the cattle mineral. The last time I saw a cow with arack has been awhile.

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

I have been on this earth half as long as you have and in my 23 years I learned one piece of wisdon wich I would think you would have definitley learned yourself. And that is there are always 2 sides to a story. Instead of the word fight. I should have used the word comparison. Here we have 2 products one i say is best and one you say is best. All I wanted to do and what we should do is compare the two. But seeing you are to blindsided or ignorant to do some basic reasearch to prove me wrong. I guess we will stop beating the dead horse. The article that i pasted and you read. Came from the very company that sells your 30-06 as does the info on the last post i made .www.whitetailinstitute.com . I for one do not beleive this article, but being objective (unlike you) i submitted none the less. You pay $17,000 for a lease? You sir are what is going to kill this sport. If you can afford that much in a year you surley can buy your own piece of property.

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

Otis, why did you have to bring up how nuch you spend? You got me thinking and doing some calculating and it ain't pretty. I hate to think how much a pound of venison costs.

Just for fun, if you kill 3 deer a year that average 150 pounds and you get 50 pounds of meat of each, your costs for venison is only $113.33 per pound. See what I mean? It ain't pretty.

I agree with Lee onhow the sport is going to be hurt by rising lease costs and the difficulty in finding access to hunting land. But what can be done? We lease 1200 acres and have been for years. We started off paying $6 an acre, which seemed high at the time but it is great land. It had gone up to$10 dollars an acre in 5 years.We have managed the place and we kill some nice deer and this past year some guys from out of state offered 15 dollars an acre. The landowner has become a friend over the years and gave us a chance to match it. We had to bring in 2 more members but we did match it.Should I be mad at him? No. I can't fault him for wanting to increase his income. It's business, it's not personal. I appreciate him at least giving us an oppurtunity to match it.

DO THE MATH: 1200 acres x$15= $18,000. We aren't ruining the sport, we are living and participating in a capatalist society.

I don't like the way I see things going but I can't blame a landowner from wanting to maximize his income. Unfortunately, I see it getting worse and I realize we could lose the land if the price keeps going up or if someone buys the land. Instead of pissing and moaning about it, several of us are in the process of trying to buy some land. We won't have as much acerage to hunt but it will be ours if we pull it off.

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

Hog, not many comments in this mail. In fact, just a couple.

First........Read the posts better before you comment.

My comment:
I'm spending over $17,000 a year on my lease, equipment, 4 wheeler, 4 wheel drive pick-up, time away from worketc. If something is working, and 30-06 is,and it costs another $100 bucks a year, (if that much) I don't care. I would save that much buying gas at Sams instead of BP.

I'll help you with your math. Your obviously were thinking of how you could save money with Lee when reading comp.was taught. (As you can see I may have missed a spelling class or two myself)

Lease $6.05 peracre x 1100 acres $6,600
Truck payment $5,255 year (nice truck)
4 wheeler payment 1,812 year
Time from work (at least10 days) $2,960 (take home)
That's $16,627 annually, not including gun's, bullets, clothes etc. Easily over $17,000, probably over $20,000 if I added it up. Well, now you've done it........I'm depressed. I can't afford this hunting thing.

Hey Hog, I agree with you increasing lease costs are hurting the sport for the common man. I guarantee you I'm as commom as corn chips. I don't know what the answer to increasing costsproblem are but my original point with Lee was, I'm not going to let a few dollars for what I think, is a superior product, cause me to cut corners in the most important place, my deer's nutrition.(ie 30-06 mineral). Hey I know I'm a fool but I use the Impeiral clover too. I even tried the Biologic once. (Bad experience with Suckologic)

Anyway, I also told Lee in the last post "I give up" I can't match wits with folks that post here. Lee has figured out how I can save $100 a year and you have caused me to rethink my total hunting costs. What kind of guys are you two. Let me waste my money on expensive hunting things and if I go broke, well, I'll be happy.

RE: Making you own 30-06 blend
 

I don't know why soo many people think that the food plot seed companies have some magic seed or something. It's all the same stuff that you can get at your local feed store. Ever look at the ingredients label on a bag of "Imperial Clover"??? It says 30% inert material... so that mean that basically a 1/3 of the bag is dirt.. or whatever. I do purchase some of the main line stuff at walmart at the end of the season when they mark it way down.. but that's about it.

I mix my own mineral also... I use 1 50# bag of trace mineral salt ($15) and 1 50# bag of 6% phosphorous supplement ($15)... this mix contains the exact same levels of minerals that is in several of the "trophy mineral" mixes. Both are readily available at your local feed store or Tractor Supply. Not to mention I get 100#s of mineral mix for $30 instead of 20# for $25. And it has been working very well for the last 2 yrs.