How honest are we?
 

I visit another site regularly and will post there at times as well. That site is a little less moderated than here so some different points of view tend to surface there that wouldn't be allowed here. (Not saying that is a bad thing) Overall the folks who post there seem to be a good group of hunters. Recently there was a "hypothetical" question asked, as well as a poll. It was a situation where you are allowed one deer per day, you kill a buck 2 miles away from your vehicle, and on your way to get your vehicle to load the deer up you spot the "buck of a lifetime" for an easy shot, would you shoot.(remember, you've already shot one 2 miles away, and your only allowed one per day) Well the guys who took time to write a comment, 90% of them said they would have to let the buck of a lifetime go and hunt him the next day. But, and here is the kicker, on the poll which lets you remain anonymous, barely half that answered said they would not shoot the "monster buck". Granted, only 30 something people have answered the poll which isn't a great # to base any true percentages on. But it still blew my mind. I always thought the overwhelming majority of hunters were legal, but maybe I am totally wrong. It just got me to thinking about how that same poll would come out with the guys/gals on this site. Of course it would almost have to be done anonymously because anyone who has visited this site for longer than a couple months knows there are a lot of true die-hards here etc, and they would never answer honestly if their nickname appeared beside their answer.
Their were some guys that answered honestly with their words and nicknames, and their justification for doing it surprised the he!! out of me. Maybe I just think different than most hunters or I am truly ignorant of the real number of hunters who aren't totally honest in how they take game, I don't know. I just take hunting, and the future of hunting very serious. I don't think there are degrees of poaching, and there is no justification whether it is a buck of a lifetime, or a yearling doe. Just made me wonder what the results would be if the same thing was asked here. I'm not asking anyone to answer the question, just venting a little bit. If a person wants to poach (which is what that hypothetical situation was asking) then there probably isn't much I can do about it other than make the proper phone calls if I know of it. I just have no tolerance for people that poach. Doesn't matter to me if they are spotlighting with a rifle, or shooting 2 deer when they should only take one. To me, it's all the same.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

RE: How honest are we?
 

I answered honest over there and I'll give an honest answer over here.
If I were hunting a state that allowed a buck a day and that happened , I would take the &quot;buck of a lifetime&quot; and have someone else tag the smaller buck<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I would then go ahead and enter it in the books , build a website , and tell my story , only to be ridiculed by other hunters and live the rest of my life in shame<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

I cant imagine living in a state that allows a buck a day<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If they have that many deer.....oh never mind , I'm sure I'll catch hell for being honest anyway.

Indyhunter , either your a lurker over at SHF or the exact thread is going on in another board. I dont see your name anywhere. Just curious , where did you see it?



Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/18/2002 03:52:25

RE: How honest are we?
 

Bowfanatic, wouldn't that depend upon wether or not it was legal to allow someone else to tag the first buck?

RE: How honest are we?
 

Expecting an honest answer for that question will be hard to get from most. It's like whether you would pull the trigger on a man, you may never know until it happens. It's hard telling the truth or anything on here or any message board. If you don't type your story down to every little grunt and circumstance, folks jump on ya without knowing the whole story 1st. Instead of asking to clarify what the reader reads, they just open fire and jump in your &quot;shtuff&quot;. Then when you clarify, they ain't got the decency to apologize. Here's an example of not knowing what was said, but was typed:

&quot;I didn't say you stole it&quot; has several meanings and each reader can see it differently without typing additional stuff and making a book like I am now. Capitalized words are accented.
&quot;(I) didn't say you stole it.&quot; (somebody else did)
&quot;I didn't SAY you stole it.&quot; (I could have implied though with different vocalization)
&quot;I didn't say YOU stole it.&quot; (but somebody did)
&quot;I didn't say you STOLE it&quot; (but it's in your possession)
&quot;I didn't say you stole IT&quot; (but you did steal something)
Sorry for venting but we need to realize that we can't take everything as gospel based on what we read here. If someone states something you don't agree with, ask for clarification before you preach your soapbox. Thank you and I hope I didn't change the subject Indy. But I feel it relates to replying &quot;an honest answer&quot;.

Indy, this had nothing to do with what you posted, just why folks may not be so honest. I agree with you about poaching.

Edited by - jetblast on 09/18/2002 07:00:31

Edited by - jetblast on 09/18/2002 11:05:22

RE: How honest are we?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>you kill a buck 2 miles away from your vehicle, and on your way to get your vehicle to load the deer up you spot the &quot;buck of a lifetime&quot; for an easy shot, would you shoot.(remember, you've already shot one 2 miles away, and your only allowed one per day)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I honest to God would not shoot it. I am far too fearful that I would get caught. Knowing me, I WOULD get caught. Driving home, it would be just my luck that I would wind up running through a sobriety check point or something similar. :)

I would definitely try to hunt that deer the next day though and would most likely pass other good deer in the hopes of seeing him again.

I hate to say it but dishonest hunters are all around. I know of people who still throw out apples, corn, etc even though baiting is illegal here in NY. I know of some that &quot;forget&quot; to tag their deer, or send in the tag, etc. Heck I know some that don't even bother with tags at all! It's a real shame that a few bad seeds have to make the rest of us look bad.

-Mike

RE: How honest are we?
 

I wouldn't shoot it because I wouldn't have had the opportunity. My bow or rifle would have been shouldered, I would be walking a brisk pace, I wouldn't be looking for other deer, etc.

In addition, if I took an animal earlier, it is my trophy. I shouldn't have shot it in the first place if it wasn't good enough so to speak.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I will be perfectly honest and say no. That is just me, I know others who would, they have to live with themselves just like I do. I do count myself lucky, in Va. you are allowed two a day.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: How honest are we?
 

Bowfanatic, maybe are are talking about 2 different sites? I've posted on that subject a few times on the forum i'm talking about. I know of a few guys from here that post there as well, so maybe the same guys have posted that question in another forum. The forum i'm talking about is TSO (Southern Outdoorsman).
Jetblast I understand what you are saying. I don't expect everyone to be honest, especially when posting on the internet. And I wouldn't call someone out personally because I thought they were lying (unless it was an attack on me personally). Sometimes it is tough to figure out what a person is saying simply by reading it. Also tough at times to understand if a person is serious or joking. I was more appalled at the justification guys gave for poaching. I understand your point about not knowing until the situation happened, although I personally don't buy that excuse. It isn't a &quot;fight or flight&quot; situation. If a person doesn't have enough control over theirself to stop and recognize that they have already killed a deer, and taking another is illegal, then they probably shouldn't be in the woods at all. I'm just saying it is not an unconscious reaction to shoulder the gun and shoot. At least I hope not.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

RE: How honest are we?
 

I would not shoot the second deer, because I personally will not willingly break any law that could result in me losing my lifetime hunting and fishing license. That may not be the most moral reason you will hear but I worked my butt off saving for two years to get it and it will have to be pryed from my cold dead fingers when I go.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I would like to say that I wouldn't shoot the buck. But I may shoot it, I've never been in that situation and wouldn't know how I'd act until I was actually in it. Dang though...a buck of a lifetime would be awfully tempting...

My mind belongs to my work...
My heart belongs to my family...

But my soul...belongs to the woods.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I think I know how I would react if the buck of a lifetime showed up. First, I would probably soil myself, then I probably have a discussion with myself to figure out if I was seeing things or not, then I'd probably get light headed, then soil myself again, and by that time he would be long gone. See, I wouldn't even have to worry about doing the right thing!

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

RE: How honest are we?
 

I'm going to be honest, I would probably shoot the second buck. We have a very liberal, 2 a day all 76 day season limit. One of which is suppose to be a doe, but with too many deer anyway it wouldn't hurt the population.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I would not shoot the buck! I may kick myself for not being more selective but, that's just how it goes!
In Texas we don't have a deer a day limit, but I had a situation a few years back that I had used my buck tags and was doe hunting. The biggest buck I've ever had in shooting range came out and worked several scrapes. I could have easily shot him and a buddy of mine that was hunting on another stand could have tagged him. That would have been illegal, I did not do it then and would not do it now!
Though I have never been checked by a Game Warden while hunting, and know that I could get away with it, my conscious would not allow me to look at an illegal trophy in my den for the rest of my life!

RE: How honest are we?
 

well if I had shot a buck in my stand it would have been nice cuz i let the smaller ones walk, but if I was walking to the truck and ole mossy horns stepped out, and didnt bust me, and I was able to get a shot off, I would take that shot in a heartbeat. Ive had monsters step out on me plenty of times. not with a dead deer laying back in the woods but if that situation happen I would take it. and ol pops with the lifetime senior citizen license would have bagged one that day also. just being honest......If we arent honest how can we look at other topics without wondering if its true or not... no worries here

Edited by - smokyghost on 09/18/2002 19:42:07

RE: How honest are we?
 

We all need to do our part as responsible hunters. We are conservation! If there is a law then we need to follow it. DNR does alot of research and has a good idea of how many deer should be harvested every year. Deer populations are in most states pretty good however, it's like saying it was just one can I threw out of the window. If there is another one million people saying the say things as they too throw the can out side of the car window. It all adds up!
We need to be all responsible and yes &quot;HONEST&quot;

Get out and scout months before season and look for the big one, prepare, learn about game management and use your smarts. It's hunting.

Keep hunting and the great outdoors alive!

RE: How honest are we?
 

But in this scenario , you can shoot a deer every day , which tells me the DNR is saying the population is way too high. If I shoot both deer on thursday , I'll take friday off and head out on saturday. Would that be o.k.?

I really get a kick out of those that preach hunting ethics with &quot;it's the law&quot;. If your going to confuse hunting ethics with the written laws , I'll ask you a simple question. Are you an ethical person?(not hunter) Do you follow every law to the T?

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: How honest are we?
 

And what I get a kick out of is those who ask others if they &quot;follow every other law&quot;, so they can justify their own personal choice to not follow the hunting laws, or poach.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

RE: How honest are we?
 

Well, my honest answer. Where I hunt if I shot the 2nd buck, the chance of me getting caught would be slim to none(That's the truth). But I would not shoot the buck. If it was 3 years ago, then I probably would, because I would be too dumb to say no.

But the first deer I ever shot was an average 8 point buck with a rifle. I was at the top of a hill while my grandpa was running some deer right towards me. The first deer was that 8 point buck so I shot it, then right behind it came a doe and then a big 10 point buck. Being the most axious kid in he world to get a big buck I still didn't pull the trigger buck let him run broadside at 15 yards. It took a lot but I'm glad I done it. Besides I was happy enough with my first deer, even though I wasn't even for sure I made a kill shot because he was still running.
Visit My Hunting Page

RE: How honest are we?
 

Nobody follows every law to the T, just not possible. Like said prior, this can't be used as justification for your actions. If you get caught the DNR won't say well your right son, I actually ran a red this morning on my way to the field...go and thanks for the tip! Whether you get caught has no implications to the decision either, getting away with a crime does not make it legal or OK. In this scenario you have the opportunity to take 1 buck a day, you chose to take the first one and should smile and say maybe tomorrow we can dance to the second. Would I shoot the 2nd, well obviously not. If my buddy it did, I would turn him in b/c straight up he is a POACHER.

I can say without remorse, poaching is the one thing that makes my blood boil. But what is worse is the guy who is a hunter and then thinks its ok to bend the rules, b/c for the most part he does it by the book. Still a poacher!!

I would like to think some of these comments where made to raise a brow or get some interesting posts, cause if not I have some serious questions about us &quot;HUNTERS&quot;<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: How honest are we?
 

Darn right I'm trying to raise some eyebrows!

Let's not just compare it to running a red light (which by the way , when running a red , your putting someone elses life in danger) lets compare it to driving under the influence. I'd bet just about everyone here has gotten behind the wheel after having a few drinks<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Well , guess what , it's not only illegal but it's probably the most irresponsible unethical thing someone can do. Did I get your attention? GOOD! It's funny how some will frown on others and say &quot;even if it was my buddy , I'd turn him in&quot; for shooting an animal , but you wouldn't bat an eye to jump behind the wheel of a car after a few drinks<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> Yeah , I know , I'm gonna get replies now from those who will say they NEVER drive , even after three drinks. If your being honest , then KUDOS to you , this thread is about honesty afterall.
Let me clarify something here. This thread was about hunting in a state where you could shoot a deer every day. I answered honestly , what I would do if I were in that position. In my state , it never could have happened. We have to tag the animal before even field dressing it , so on my way back to the truck , not only would my weapon have been unloaded , but my tag would have already been filled and I'm sure as heck not gonna shoot &quot;the buck of a lifetime&quot; for someone elses tag.
Lets talk a little more about &quot;bending&quot; the rules. Game regulations also state what time hunting hours begin and end and in most states your weapon must be cased anytime in between open hours. When closing time is 6:29 pm , I'll bet ya'll check your watch and climb down from your stand at 6:29 pm , right? Here's my honest answer , I climb down when I cant see thru my peep good enough to feel 100% sure I can put my arrow where I want , which normally is a good 15 - 30 minutes beyond regulations and I personally dont know a bowhunter who doesn't do the same.

BTW , I cant stand poachers either! If I get labeled a poacher here for giving an honest answer to the above scenario , I'll get over it , but some of you fellas better take a hard look in the mirror before slapping a label on anybody.

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: How honest are we?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
And what I get a kick out of is those who ask others if they &quot;follow every other law&quot;, so they can justify their own personal choice to not follow the hunting laws, or poach.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Typical comeback!!! If you bend the rules in hunting , your labeled a poacher. But if you question those who labeled you a poacher , on how ethically they live their non-hunting life , they avoid the question by throwing yet another accusation at you.

Indy , can you honestly say , that you follow the hunting laws to a T? EVERY single one? You dont bend any of the rules? I bet I know what your answer will be.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I myself would not shoot, but i would be back there the next day

RE: How honest are we?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I bet I know what your answer will be.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Of course you do Bowfanatic.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

RE: How honest are we?
 

Indy in answer to your question no I wouldnt. I wont say that i havent bent the rules on quiting time but I wont go as far as poaching and that is exactly what the scenario you are describing is.

RE: How honest are we?
 

Hey Bowfanatic, How do I get my eyebrows back down? I think they are stuck way above my head somewhere. I'm with you on this one.

RE: How honest are we?
 

Hey I looked in the mirror and besides the pounds I have put on as I got older, I am happy what I see. I too answered honestly, I would not shoot the deer and I would rat on a guy who did. Who cares if this situation is real or would ever be applicable to you, you still took 2 deer in one day and that is not allowed. What would you call it?

I honestly don't think your a poacher, Bowfanatic. I have been around here for awhile and have seen your thoughts. I know what your saying and it does make us think!

RE: How honest are we?
 

Never having been in that situation I cann't tell you one way or the other. I am with Froman on this one in that I would like to think I wouldn't shoot it, but I am not sure I can give a positive answer until I have actually been there. It's nice to think how a person would act in a given situation, but until it happens it's hard to know.

Later
Gone_Huntin

RE: How honest are we?
 

A once in a life buck, Hummmmm. This isnt an easy one. I would probably shot my self and call it all good. My tendency would be to talk my self into it. Trying to justify it by telling my self I will never see one like this agian. I would eventually say no. Then I would make note as to where the buck was, do some scouting, and show up there agian, and hope to see him.
As much as I hate to I would let him walk. The main reason is there has been a line drawn, if I cross it, where will it stop.

RE: How honest are we?
 

If I shot a deer and am attempting to drag it 2 miles I would be in no way prepared to shoot another deer. Cop out answer but true.

Some things are true whether you believe them or not.

RE: How honest are we?
 

I think if yall passed on the buck the next time you seen him would be at the checking station or the butcher house. And what if the buck busted you and went noctornal, or if the rut was on. he could be in the next county under someone elses stand. If that oppurtunity presented itself I would take a shot if I could. Ive had that happen to me countless times, big deer stepping out on me. And everytime they busted me or I couldnt get a shot and ive never seen those deer again. even hunting the area for the rest of the season. so the next time that opp. presents itself I will be ready even if I had a downed deer elsewhere. With all the time, money, and practice I put in every year Im not going to let something like that walk... espicially with a bow cuz thats all I do.

Edited by - smokyghost on 09/19/2002 17:11:57

RE: How honest are we?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hey I looked in the mirror and besides the pounds I have put on as I got older, I am happy what I see. I too answered honestly, I would not shoot the deer and I would rat on a guy who did. Who cares if this situation is real or would ever be applicable to you, you still took 2 deer in one day and that is not allowed. What would you call it?

I honestly don't think your a poacher, Bowfanatic. I have been around here for awhile and have seen your thoughts. I know what your saying and it does make us think!


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Thank you! I'm not a poacher in my eyes or my buddies eyes , but for some around here , I would be labeled one. If I got some of you to think about &quot;the poacher&quot; label , hunting ethics combined with hunting law and human ethics , thats whats important to me. I think we have a great bunch of folks around here , but alot of times , most would fear giving an honest answer because of the attacks and being labeled a poacher instead of a hunter.

In all reality , I'd love to say , I'd let him walk. But when I read the thread , the first thing that came to mind was , wow , you can shoot a deer per day (that told me that there must be a population problem). Then the kicker was &quot;a buck of a lifetime&quot;! Well , the first thing that popped in my mind was a picture of heart attack (he was one huge non typical that lived on a ranch) , those that know what buck I'm talking about can relate<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Given that scenario , it would be much easier for me to say I'd let him walk , but in reality , I'd probably shoot three feet over his head from shaking so bad , and if that didn't scare him away , the smell coming from my pants would<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>


Good luck to everyone this year! And BE SAFE!!!


&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;

RE: How honest are we?
 

In all my years of deer hunting, I have never seen a Game Warden in the woods! I am convinced that I could get away with just about anything I wanted to do!
That being said, I will not knowingly break any game laws. Have I in the past? Yes, in my teen years and maybe a time or two out of ignorance! I know that &quot;ignorance of the law is no excuse&quot; and I won't try to justify my actions with that excuse.
Even back then I did not make a &quot;habit&quot; of breaking game laws.
As I got a little older and (hopefully) a little wiser, I came to the point where worrying about getting caught, made me have no fun in trying to break the laws!
As I said before I have had the chance to take an illegal trophy, but passed! I could not see any pride in taking an illegal trophy!
As the old saying goes &quot;to thine own self be true!&quot;
And Bowfanatic, I could imagine what the Game Warden would think of your &quot;kill 2 today and take tommorrow off&quot; philosophy!
You don't seem to like the label of &quot;poacher,&quot; and I am not saying that you are a poacher! However, if you were to do something illegal, and got caught at it, then that is exactly what you would be! A poacher! If it ended up in the local paper, or public records, you would forever be known to your friends and family as a poacher! You could also lose your hunting equipment and hunting rights too!
To me, its just not worth it!
Its not worth it to my concious, even if I don't get caught, as I said, there is no pride in dishonesty!

RE: How honest are we?
 

Here's a personal story on not ever seeing a game warden or think the chances of getting caught are nill. Where I hunt during rifle, I never see GW's, I mean never. 2 years ago, I decided to stay a little longer in one of my evening spot, it is a large alfla field, that bottlenecks to bush. Their is a little used trail that i park on and you can see most of the field from. Anyway to the point, it was legal and the deer were on the move into the field, I decided to unload and just watch...cause I knew a good buck was in the area. Well about 25 minutes later, I was just getting ready to head out and he appeared on the fields edge. A mere 125 yards away, I could see with my naked eye he was the &quot;once in a Lifetime&quot; type buck. I did scope him for a couple of minutes as he pushed does around searching for some love, I even reached for my clip....but I never put it in. It wasn't dark but it was well past legal, as the deer made his way off, I left. Upon arrival at my truck but who do you think was sitting their with Bino's but the invisible GW. We chatted, checked my truck, license, weapon and just as he left he said &quot;Oh did you happen to see that buck in the field&quot;, I paused and said yeap. He smiled and said good luck, I hope you get him. Well boys I never saw him again and it was the hardest decision I have ever made. My ideas of a trophy are taking any animal on their turf/terms and by the book. You never know, when the GW will be around the bend. In there eyes the law is the law and if you break it you are going to pay...not only will you lose your hunting rights, equipment, but also that head that made you say ah what the hell. Really is it worth it?

I know this situation is not going to happen as posted, but the chance that you shoot a lesser deer and a bigger buck presents himself....does! So be prepared to follow through with what you are stating and if it is nobody will know...then also be prepared to be caught and labeled a Poacher. Cause then the shoe will fit!

Wish you all a great and safe season!