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Another question about antlers and growing potential.

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Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Old 03-22-2005, 09:27 AM
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Nontypical Buck
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Default Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Reading one of the posts here about folks seeing deer with antlers this late in the season, made me wonder.

If a mature whitetail buck is still holding on to his antlers 2-3 months later than usual, will his potential this year be reduced? In other words will he sacrifice this years rack size because of holding on to last years antlers longer than usual?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Not from what I've seen. Last year, I still had bucks around my place with antlers in mid-April. The two biggest bucks had racks that were even bigger this year. Then again, there was corn planted in the fields around here last year, and there hadn't been any crops there in a couple of years. So, their nutrition was probably better last year than it had been for a while, which may have helped their antler growth, especially for such a short time for growth. This winter, they had dropped their racks by February.

I've read that bucks that are really stressed from the breeding season will drop their antlers sooner. I don't know, but my bucks last year that still had their racks in April were big, mature, breeding bucks. But, last year the winter was mild compared to this year. Obviously, there's a lot of different factors.

I would bet that as along as your deer get good nutrition this spring and summer that their racks should be as big as ever. I'm sure hoping that farmer around me plants again this year; maybe their racks will be even bigger this year!
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:48 PM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Here is a link that should answer a lot of questions. Deer antlers grow over a period of 200 days. As long a they have shed by the beginning of this period there should be little effect. Once a deer rubs his velvet off he is no longer expending nutrition on growing them.

http://www.whitetailinstitute.com/in...s/mar04/8.html
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:07 PM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Using the 200 days growth period, if the deer start shedding their velvet in mid-Sept, the bucks would have to begin antler growth by Mar 1st.

If, for some reason they keep their antlers any longer than that, full antler development would not happen and the racks would be smaller than predicted.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Nutrition has a great deal to do with shedding and growth of antlers, but most of it is dependant upon "photoperiodism".

Photoperiodism is the amount of light that reaches the deers pituatary gland. This gland triggers most of their behaiviors and changes, including antler growth, and casting.

The amount of day-light increases well after the rut. This triggers a drop in testosterone levels, which in turn loosens the cells around the pedicle. Therefore the antler is left to either fall or be bumped off the deers head.

Larger, more dominant bucks involved in the majority of the breeding, experience a larger drop in testosterone. This causes them to drop their antlers sooner than "scrub" bucks normally.

However, as I mentioned, nutrition does have a factor as well. So less stressful winters will cause deer to retain their antlers longer too. Often times the new budding antler pushes the old antler off.

Its these years that antler growth can be impeded slightly, because of the "late" start. Although, the nutritients a deer receives during the antler growing period have more to do with it, than the length of time they have to grow them.

Hope you guys have a lil better understanding of how and why a deer drops its antlers.---Matt
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

By the way, I cant remember who did the study, but...

..Someone...dont know who...was able to get bucks to grow three sets of antlers in one year, by changing the amount of "day-light" the bucks were subjected to.

Therefore, its my belief that the 200 day antler growth period is merely an estimate. Actual amounts of daylight vary slightly from year to year. Therefore, the timing of antler shedding and growth are effected ever so slightly.

You can also see how the effect of photoperiodism relates to the rut, and to the birthing cycle of deer. Many people claim the moon effects the rut, but studies have shown that the moon phases have little if anything to do with the ruts timing. It may effect the amount of daytime rut that we witness, but the timing and peak of the rut in most states happens within a day or so every year. Around my here in NJ, it falls on November 8th most years.

Just figured that was some more interesting info for you guys.

Have a good one---Matt
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

You can also see how the effect of photoperiodism relates to the rut,
If that is true why do bucks come into rut early-mid- Nov in the North yet the rut doesn't happen in the parts of the South until months later?

If photoperiodism was the factor when the rut occurs, why don't all bucks come into rut at approx the same time? The period of daylight doesn't vary from state to state.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Jimmy, the answer to that is simple.

Mother nature!

Mother nature causes deer in different regions to have different "biological clocks".

This is to protect the young from being born too early or too late in the year.

The amount of daylight change it takes a southern buck to go into rut is more than a northern buck. This is because a southern bucks offspring isnt subjected to as harsh of winters. It can be said that deer in warmer climates have a "looser" clock. Because the time at which their young is born isnt as vital to their survival.

Different regions deer, have different "clocks". But they all work on the same basic principle. As light increases a buck begins to grow his antlers in spring. As the light begins to fade again, the shorter time of year, the buck has the urge to breed. This breeding takes place at the most opportune time, for the gestation period to conclude during spring. A time when the newborns will have plenty of food to begin growth before fall and winter set in. It works the same with bears, except that they have a delayed fertilization. Where the mother bear doesnt actually carry the young, until just before entering the den. This allows her to retain more nutrients for herself before "hibernating".

I understand why your doubting me, but its all been proven through science. You dont have to believe me, and some of it is hard to believe, but it is all relatively true. I have been studying deer biology since I was a young boy. Taking facts and research from different sources, and compiling them to sort for the truth.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask! Have a good one---Matt
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:05 PM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Very good posts. I am however shocked that ANYONE would argue with photoperiodism, especially once it has been explained by someone who obviously know what he is speaking of??? This is clearly THE stimilus to the entire whiteatils biology. I am actually VERY impressed to see anyone on the forums bring this scientifically proven FACT up. Most seem to base such factors as rut timming and antler growth to old wives tales based on something their grandpa told them back in the ol' days. This dictates the timming and stress factors dictate the exact specific date per animal. As you mentioned above, Mother Nature seems to have a will of her but she can only supress biology for so long. Thanks again, I have enjoyed seeing the educational posts.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Another question about antlers and growing potential.

Cornfed your right, thank you. Im glad someone appreciates what Im trying to convey.

Unfortunately many people believe that a "cold snap" or moon phase triggers the rut. Im hoping for people to realize the real reasons through my posts.

I should say though, that a cold snap or a particular moon phase does have slight effects on the rut.

Full moon nights offer the deer better visibility, thus causing more breeding to occur at night. Cold snaps allow the deer to breed more during daylight hours. Whereas a warm spell will often push the breeding to later at night. This is because heavy bucks, sporting their winter coats, dont want to expend too much energy to breed. They realize that their survival is linked to their efforts to breed. Im not entirely sure as to how they know, but its probably not unlike us being lethargic on a 90degree day.

Knowing all of this, keep in mind, the timing of the rut, or more accurately, the peak and duration of the rut, is normally within a few days of itself every year.

Basically what Im saying is, dont throw out the stuff about moon phases and cold weather, but understand they arent the "trigger"....they merely effect the way you should hunt the rut.

Have a good one---Matt
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