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Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

Old 01-05-2005, 08:02 PM
  #11  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA
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Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

Thats not too good of an argument Buckslayers. ALL the other states have a smaller herd than us and do just fine.
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:16 PM
  #12  
 
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Location: Morgantown, WV
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Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

I like the antler restrictions and I have noticed the difference. I saw a few good ones this year but they were all in places that I couldn't shoot them.

The problem I have with the current deer management system is the 2 week antlerless season. I agree that in WMU's with mostly forest that too many deer will gobble up all the food, therefore the bucks wont grow to full potential. However, here in area 2A which is the western half of Fayette and all of Greene county, it is all farmland surrounded by patches of woods. Plenty for the deer to eat. No need to shoot as many deer as we do every season in this area. These deer already have enough trouble hiding in the small patches between fields. Then one hunter walks in that patch, all the deer run out and the surrounding hunters have enough doe tags to kill them all 6 times over. Another problem is that of all the antlerless deer killed, a good chunk of them are button bucls. For every button buck killed that is 1 less buck you will have in that area the next year.

If the land can support a bigger herd then guess what?! That means we would have MORE does that give berth to MORE button bucks that grow into MORE bigger bucks.

I dont want to shoot spikes and 4 points like you all claim, i just like to SEE deer. The only way to see deer here now is round up 20 buddies and turn over every bush.

SO......what do i think the answer to this problem is? In areas such as this one where food is available, 3 day doe season instead of 2 weeks OR a helluva lot less tags. It does not take a Masters degree in wildlife biology to figure that out, its common sense.
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Old 01-06-2005, 09:06 AM
  #13  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

apparently it does....


Dr. Alt in recent interviews since his retirement says he quit because he was not MORE succesfull at herd reductions. He wants more does taken, and is frustrated with hunters like you who do not want to get pa down to 12dpsm by shooting MORE does than we do today.

Feel free to search for the article from Pa's TimesLeader newspaper.

Hunters still do not get it. Herd reductions are the only aspect of the deer plan Dr. Alt planned on delivering.........the rest was fluff.

He also said, that he wants the PGC funded by nonsportsmans dollars ( in addiition to hunters) so that hunters cannot have a say in the wildlife managment of the state.

This, after a commission that gave him everything he asked for in 6 years.

He says in the article that he was ineffective in pa wildlife management, and that is why he quit. At herd reductions he was effective, at making hunters second class citizens he was sucessfull, at dividing hunters he was sucessfull....

The only thing he was NOT sucessfull at was delivering those "more and bigger bucks" he promised.....
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Old 01-06-2005, 07:39 PM
  #14  
Spike
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

Chick you're so arrogant that even if your silly argument made any sense no one would listen.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:14 AM
  #15  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
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Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

MeatHunter2 (or any other Pa hunters who care to respond)

What do you think Gary Alt's main goal was?

A To increase the overall health of the herd by bringing the buck to doe ratio in check while creating more trophy bucks.

B To significantly reduce the deer herd by forcing hunters who want meat in their freezers to shoot a doe instead of a young buck.

I said it a couple years ago and I still believe it to be true. Gary Alt played the antler restriction health of the herd/future trophy bucks card to get the big rack hunters salivating at his plan while his number one goal was to significantly reduce Pa's deer herd period. I'm not knocking Gary Alt at all , in fact I think it was a good plan. I'm sure he was asked if he could come up with a plan to force the hand (so to speak) of the hunters who dont desire shooting doe , to reduce a deer population which is way over the game commissions desired herd numbers.

edited..Guess I should read all replies before posting. While some of you may disagree with chickory (or his delivery) , I believe he's absolutely correct in his assessment of Gary Alt's true intentions.

And just so there's no confusion as to why a hick from Wisconsin would reply to this thread with any clue to what's going on in Pennsylvania. Wisconsin is in the same boat as you. 2004's crack at reducing our herd was two seperate doe only seasons and earn a buck during regular seasons for both bow and gun. Premature estimates for the 2004 season last I heard was that they (DNR) didn't get close to the doe harvest (or overall harvest) they wanted. Whats next? Apply for a lottery drawing buck tag like we use to have for doe tags?

I know alot of you are still hyped about the bigger bucks but answer this.

Lets say Alt's plan worked and the number of doe harvests increases significantly every year. How long do you think a system like this could stay in place before jeopardizing the entire deer herd?
Big bucks are nice and letting the young ones grow up to breed is a nice idea , but if they dont have the doe to breed then where are they gonna go? There gonna go where the doe are , the residential areas and tracts of land that dont allow hunting. It's a pretty good short term plan to reduce the herd providing there is enough participation but for a long term plan it doesn't take a biology degree to see that it's a recipe for disaster from a hunters view point.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:36 AM
  #16  
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Murrysville Pa/now Vacaville CA
Posts: 47
Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

I would ask those us on here to address the following....Do you get financial advice from a bum?? No...Gary Alt is a very sound thinker...

I was stationed in Georgia a few years ago and hunted a deer lease down there that was managed by Auburn University...We shot some Hogs....I mean huge old bucks... But we killed a ton does.. Sometimes you thought too many...But I always got one...or two or three...They were there...

I would say many here in Pa who are stuck in there ways are the same guys that said I was crazy joining the Army so I could go to college and move for a job...I did...Still do.. But still I have experience hunting every state I live in...Many still want to just get drunk at camp... Please I remember those days, too... But how about this... My farm is tuff to hunt with a rifle...Too many houses....But if you suggested Shotgun only and bow, crossbow you would hear everyone scream... Why cause you have to really hunt a bit .... How many folks got shot this year.?? Too many....There is NO excuse for an accidental kill, none...One simple rule if you ain't positive, don't shoot..Period..If there is any possible chance of a loose bullet , stop...

Most of the problems are permitted because we are in the society of it's okay, and let's all just get along.. BS... Rules in this case were working and many of the non-coop types were just the loud wheel so we oiled it...No keep the QDM or my farm will ruin many acres when I put that sub-division there...I only have a few years to retire ....
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Old 01-10-2005, 08:29 AM
  #17  
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Erie PA USA
Posts: 101
Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

I agree about a little everyone says. I just hope that the next guy can deliver. Gary Alt was a good talker but like someone said he didnt deliver.



Tim
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Old 01-10-2005, 12:04 PM
  #18  
Spike
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

Bowfanatic, I would say both. But let's say that we didn't change to scientific or quality management, Gary Alt was still playing with bears, and the restriction stayed the same. The deer herd was still going to be reduced. What Alt did was combine it into a foward thinking plan so that once reduced we'd be in better shape. No lopsided buck to doe makeup, no more large overwinter herds doing damage to future food sources, and many more 2.5 year olds to hunt and have larger antler growth, which by the way IS something the vast majority of hunters would rather have when given the choice. If it isn't about antlers then a doe should be fine. The meat tastes the same.

Too many people do not understand why the herd had to be reduced, and that's about the only place they "failed"... education. Hunters think (those that understand herd reduction means -to reduce) that once their down everything is magically fixed and that's just not so. Or some even think this is new policy set in stone; to always continually reduce each year. PA's herd initially grew with an increasing food source. Once that changed, deer moved on to greener pastures and the ones that stayed got smaller. Hence the increase in the SE & SW. Couple that with no hunting signs and the herd explodes. Meanwhile back in the forests, those deer are just getting by and the food sources aren't improving, thanks in large part to the DCNR's forestry practices. So to let the food catch up and get by the deer, their numbers must remain low for a couple of years so that someday I can have good hunting with my son and grand kids. If you want alot of deer, you need alot of food, nutritional food that is.

And that's just the forest habitat reason, then there's the social issues of auto damage and death; and economic losses to various types of farming.
Alot of Hunters in PA are short sighted and selfish and groups like the USP exploit that in their own actions. They've done nothing but stir discontent, and that divides us.
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:45 PM
  #19  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Posts: 144
Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

i think we should have a two week season on our game comm leaders. these people have put our deer numbers to shame. shooting only the big bucks has been tried before in the southern states and it ruined the deer herd . the big bucks they talked about nevered showed. it took a few years but the only thing that happen was that the big bucks were shot and the smaller bucks were left to breed. putting an end to the big rack genies. two weeks of doe season and two very bad winter has just about done our herds in. i do not think that doe season should be decided on by how much money the game comm. needs to make. wouldn't it be better if we voted our game comm into office. about all these clowns have done is to chase more hunters out of the woods. it is no fun for the kids to hunt if they do not see anything. [:@]
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:33 PM
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ASHTABULA CO. OHIO
Posts: 247
Default RE: Gary Alt (PA Hunters)

Green01--you took the words out of my mouth. I'am the only one out of 5 of us that bagged a buck. Our group went 2 for 5 on does it was the least amount of deer we have seen and I have been hunting PA. for 36 years.
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