RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

Well I guess ill get in here too on this,, Ive taken many deer with weapons from bow, 50 cal muzzleloader, and rifles all the way from centerfire 22s all the way up to 300, win mag. In my experience, Ive taken several(well over 10-15) deer with a 22-250 loaded with 63 grain soft point bullets, most behind the shoulder, with ranges from 30-150 yards, and have gotten complete passthroughs on almost every one. Never lost one with a 22 centerfire and never had one travel more than 40 yards. In fact the only deer Ive ever lost, was shot with a 270, and I still believe it was in the shoulder area. I think the 22 centerfires are adequate, if you use the correct bullet and use your head on bullet placement. But this is just my opinion, everone is entitled to their own.:)

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

What accounts for killing power?
From bows to muzzle loaders and every weapon and caliber in between, killing power is based on several factors.

Lets exclude shot placement and compare what happens when an animal is hit in exactly the same spot with these various weaponds.

With arrows I think all will agree that the animal dies from hemmorage coupled with the shock of instant intermal organ damage. Thus muzzle energy and projectile foot pounds released are not a real factor other than penetration power.

On the other hand bullet projectiles have infinate variables that effects their killing power.
Grain weight,design, caliber and speed are the only elements that govern the bullets destructive power.
An Example of those comparisons is using a 30-06 165 grain bullet in fmj fired into a block of gel, the bullet passes thru causing minimal damage.
Now take the same 165 grain weight bullet in lets say a REM. power point open nosed, Both bullets have the same muzzle energy, and the same foot pounds of projectile energy, but when the gel block is struck by this bullet it is destroyed.
The damage caused is from the energy released NOT the stored by the projectile.

Now lets take two identical 150 grain .30 cal. bullets and fire them from a 30-30 at lets say 2400 fps and from a 30-06 at say 3200 fps into the gel block.
The faster bullet will do much much more damage than the slower bullet due to mass verses speed.

Now lets take a .385 grain .50 cal.hp muzzle loader bullet and and a .55 grain .22 hp and fire them both at the same speed say 2900 fps at the gel block.
The .22 will do far more damage than the .50 because its energy was released instantly into the block rather than spreading out and passing thru it.

now to prove these factors, just for fun lets take a piece of 2x4 three feet long, sharpen one end down to about .22 caliber Take your shoe and sock off, place your big toe only over the edge of a step facing it. now hold the 2x4 horizonal 8 inches over your toe with the 4 inch side facing your toe and drop it.
wasn't so bad was it, kinda boring?
Now for the fun part, take the same 2x4 and hold it verticaly 8 inches above it with the .22 end squarely over your big toe, now drop it.
Wow that must have been fun you are shouting with joy and dancing a jig!!!
Point made!

The fact is many things happens when a bullet enters an animals body,energy is instantly released as it begins its path,
the speed in which the energy is released determines the damage caused,an explosion of mass and energy occurs.
the damage caused is determined by two factors, how much energy thats released and how quickly that energy is released.

Larger heavier bullets store more energy than smaller lighter bullets, but release it much slower,going at the same speed the heavier bullets spread that energy out over a longer path and when passing thru much of the energy being released follows the bullet out the exit wound.
just like applying your brakes and coming to a slow stop or smacking a brick wall head on.

The point is,a 150 grain 30-30 as well as other larger caliber rounds carries more foot pounds of energy than a 220 swift but release that heavier energy much slower and less efficently causing much less damage.

A bullet kills from the internal damage it causes but the real killer it the shock it envokes,
When it screams into the body at tremendous velocity the internal expansion and explosion it creates forces the air from the lungs,increases the blood pressure to deadly levels and paralizes mussel and nerve actions, this deadly reaction does not generally take place with rounds such as the 30-30 because energy is not released quickly enough.That is why the fast .22 calibers kill more quickly than the heavier calibers such as the 30-30.
But it does happen with the fast energy releasing cf ,22s 9 out of 10 times.


Fairchase Larry, Remember,Fences and Pens = SLOBS!

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

When I was growing up in rural West Virginia the .22 Hornet was a popular deer cartridge. When the .222 became common it was the choice of many. My dad bought me a .22-250 as a welcome home gift when I got back from Vietnam. I shot 6 deer with it without losing a single one. I don't advocate the .22's as deer cartridges but there is no doubt that they will do the job. Around here, even now, many of the poachers favor the .22 Magnum rimfire.

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

Only because it's quiet not because it's an awsome deer slayer. Trust me.

True, when all goes well an uber fast 22 caliber bullet can kill like a lightening strike. I've seen it many times. But I've also seen it go tragically bad as well.

I confessed this on another thread so I will do so here as well. I hunt totally legal now in fact I'm a real hard ass about hunting ethics now but that wasn't always the case. I was once a young idiot and hung out with a crowd that killed deer the Malcom X way....... BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! I don't care to go into details and it's certainly not a thing to be proud of but I have seen a lot of deer killed. Killed with darn near every caliber they sell in the United States.

Poachers and night hunters love calibers like the 22-250 because it shoots flat and often it will drop a deer in his tracks. But when it doesn't there is usually no blood trail and the deer are very hard to find. And yes some of them will run off to never be found. Maybe it's because I have seen enough deer shot with these type calibers to know what will eventually happen that I have come to dislike them as a deer caliber.

Your whole basic analogy can be summed up like this. Do you want a fast bullet that rapidly fragments or a slower one that passes all the way through the deer? Yes the fast fragmenting bullet has the greater POTENTIAL for a dropped him right there kill but it also has the greater potential for poor pentration, deflection, and a lost animal as well. (they certainly kill ballistic gelatin very well but gelatin isn't a deer) The bigger slower bullet may not drop them on the spot as often or make cool looking holes in jello but a 24 to 50 caliber expanding hole all the way through the heart lung area of a deer is a sure death and gives two holes for tracking them the 10 to 50 yards they may or may not run.

So is trying to cut out that 40 yard death dash after blowing a hole through them with a 308 worth the risk of dropping down to a 22-250 or a 220 swift? Calibers that have a slightly higher percentage of on the spot kills but a vastly higher percentage of wounded and lost deer. Not for me.

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

I have viewed several post that give negative post to calibers that shoot so fast and expand so quickly that they leave no exit wound.
The reason being that if they manage to run 10 to 50 yards from where they were hit the exit wound allows more blood flow to trail the animal.

The entrance wound allows sufficent blood flow for Ray Charles to find the animal!

I guess those people are not very good at finding Easter eggs either!

Using that theory, if an animal is hit with an arrow and it does not pass completely thru, then it would be impossible to find?

Tracking skills and the determination and knowhow of trailing and finding wounded game is as much a part of hunting as any other aspect.
Animals leave lots of fresh sign when wounded, a three foot wide blood trail is not necessary to find a deer size animal that only travels 30 to 150 feet from the last place it was seen.

If you can't track um,don't shoot um!

Fairchase Larry, remember, Fences and Pens = SLOBS!!!

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

when it says 22 cal,it also says center fire (no rim fire for deer); 22 cal has a lot of ammo. 22-250 ; 223 ; 243 .they all are 22 cal,but will work ok; just not 22 rim fire.

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

And if you wanna use a bb-gun go shoot field mice.

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

I could be wrong but i think he was talking about a 22LG. Unless shooting point blank in the eyeball, i would never attempt it. I think federal regulations say you can only use centerfire rounds on deer and larger animals.

On the subject of .22 centerfires......the m-16 is a 5.56mm (.218 in) round and it would destroy a deer. I know it is not a deer rifle and it can't be compared to one but as far as the size of the bullet is concerned it would do tremendous damage at long distances.

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

Let's use some common sense.
Yes you can pull a trailer with a VW.
Yes you can Tee off with a putter.
Yes you can fish with a stick and twine.
and yes you could hunt with a 22. Just because you can do it does not mean it's the most effective way of doing something.:eek:

RE: 22 Cal To Shoot Deer
 

The 243 is not a 22 caliber. The 223 and 22-250 are. They are legal in the states where I hunt and when used with the right bullet and within 150-200 yards they are reasonably effective. However when conditions are less than ideal you are better off with a bigger caliber.