RE: best deer gun ?
 

You guys have no clue on what your talking about.
Claiming a .270 and 30-06 is a real gun and a .243 is not not. Let me give you the ballistics on 4 guns @ 500yds

--------------------- 500yd-----velocity----energy----drop zeroed@200yds

.243 100gr. federal sierras.--------2040--------925-----------39.9"
25-06-120gr corelocks-------------1825--------887-----------44.1"
.270-130gr corelock----------------1801--------936-----------43.3"
30-06-150gr.corelock--------------1622---------876----------50.9"

wind drift 10 mph crosswind @ 500yds
.243----18.4"
.270----19.7
30-06--19.7

The .243 is an excellent deer gun at long ranges surpassing all 3 guns listed here with the bullets compared. For one energy is not what kills, velocity does and the little 100 gr bullet traveling that fast at 500 yds will mushroom better and do more internal damage than the other 3 guns listed here with there bullets. 500 yds is far but dont think it cant be done I regularly take deer to 300 yds with my .243 like nothing, and they never go past 40 yds. 500 yds aint far fetched. my 16 yr old shoots out to 200 yds regularly and has taken several deer at that range. I have never lost a deer with my .243. In my opinion it is the best deer rifle.
You can keep your bullet lobbing 30-06 . I'll stay with what works better.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

No disrespect intended Zrex, but the loads (depicted by you) factor in some pretty broad assumptions on user choice and your graph didn't denote additonal calibers mentioned in previous posts either.

The fact of the matter is we should be speaking of ballitic tables concerning two-hundred yard ranges and under while discussing whitetail hunting as a rule. Doing that, the 30.06, 7mm mag, and 300 win mag all deliver tremendously more ft-lbs from muzzle through 500 yards...ridiculously more at 500 yards by the way. The .270 enjoys more ft-lbs as well and is only slightly slower fps wise. The 7mm mag and the .300 win mag also blow the .243 out of the water in the fps category ...again, from 100-500 yards and virtually tied even at the muzzle. The .300 win mag also enjoys some 7 inches less bullet drop at 500 yards.

All this talk about 'best deer gun' and '500 yard shots' is rather pointless, I hardly think the two could euate into an intelligent argument. Furthermore, whomever might be seeking a 'best deer gun for 500 yard shots' would never be a hunting partner of mine.

By the way, don't take my word for it, click the link and compare any three guns at a time, you may wish to enter calibers/loads the proponents of other calibers/loads would likely use too...

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm

RE: best deer gun ?
 

7 mag and the 300 mag are awsome calibers and I wouldnt dream of trying to compare them to a .243
My point was that the .243 is just as capable of killing as a 30-06 or .270. and it just erks me when someone says "Get a real gun like a 30-06" Puhlease! Just wanted to show how a .243 surpasses a 30-06 at long ranges. Pretty good for a gun that has no umphh huh ? LOL.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

A 243 surpassing a 30-06 at long range?

A 243 with proper bullet and loading versus a 30-06 with crappy low BC bullet yes. But head to head both with similarly matched loadings, not hardly.

Go back to federals website where you got your 243 data from. This is what the site has on it.

243 100gr SGK 2960fps@ muzzle 2040fps@500yds w/925ft.lbs. 39.9 inch drop

30-06 165 SGK 2800fps@muzzle 1910fps@500yds w/1340ft. lbs. 45.2 inch drop

This is still a bad comparison because these two bullets have basically the same BC(notice almost identical vel. drop) with the .308 having a slight advantage. The .308 should be much higher.

I am failing to see the grave advantage that you say the wonderful 243 has over the helpless 30-06. Both of the bullet drops would preferably have to be dialed in as 3 feet of holdover with a low power hunting scope would be tricky. That leaves the 400ft.lb. difference in energy that the 30-06 has over the .243.

Im not doubting the killing power of a properly loaded 6mm bullet in the hands of a skilled rifleman with accurate ranging techniques, but I wouldnt suggest 500 yard shots on deer with the low BC bullets that are factory loaded along with a low power non-target turretted scope.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

I feel like the lone ranger here- my gun depends on where im hunting, one spot i hunt is very wooded with about only 75 to 100 yds here i use a 44 rem mag carbine or pistol with 240 grain jhp, which i really like for the knockdown power(i hate trackin) but another spot i go has 300yd shot possiblities i carried a mauser 98 barrelled to 270 BUT this last year was introduced to the power of a 300 win. model 77 ruger and a 7mm win.short mag. both very nice guns the 300 left a hole as big as the 44 in the deers chest. and the 7 was a tack driver at 100 yds 200yds a 1 inch group and a 2 inch goup at 300 ---amazing
dad shoots a 30-30 as does my bro, nephews -- no ammo left for me

and BROWNING308 (also a nice gun) i scratched a fleas back on top off a deers back at 6 miles ---if your gonna lie ----lie big---adolf hitler

RE: best deer gun ?
 

a .308 is a great deer cartridge, at least i think so.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

castman, even when you compare the 30-06 with a premium bullet it doesnt have the advantage over the .243. Out of 4 comparos the 30-06 only takes one. At 500 yds the .243 has better wind drift, has more velocity and has less bullet drop. the 30-06 has more energy, and energy is not what kills animals. there is no such thing as knockdown power.

What will mushroom better a 165 gr bullet going 1900 fps or a 100 gr bullet going 2000 fps. Theres more to just ballistics. The .243 will have better devestation on internals.
The .243 has a lot of umph. I've proven it twice. next question please. LOL

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about firearms will tell you a .243 is not a great choice at 300 + yards. the 100 grain bullet drifts in the wind alot more than a heavier .30 cal bullet. its common sense. a .30-06 makes a helluva lot cleaner kills when place in the chest area than a .243. thats like saying a .22 will stop a deer better than 12 gauge slug at 50 yards.

slayer

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Slayer your always spewing stuff you know nothing about. When you learn to read look up the ballistics I already posted. the .243 has less wind drift then a .308, 30-06 .270 and more.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

zerx i think u the one that doesent know anything. a 30. cal rifle has way more hitting power then a pea shooter of a 243. were always talkin about ethical kills i wouldnt say a 243. kills a deer ethical my uncle shot manys of deer with a 243 and and most the time the bullti just goes clean threw because its so small and goes too fast u should read up more on this b4 go critizisig slayer he right the 308 and 30-06 are real guns. shot a deer with my 308 last week and looks like a cannon hit the front shoulder

think b4 u speak zerx

RE: best deer gun ?
 

no other 44mag fans for close up??---i have a ruger carbine that i love--- --onebullet
what about the best hand gun ??

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Where do you guys come up with this stuff "goes too fast, goes clean through" Buwahahahahah !
You guys really need to educate yourselfs. Let me say it one more time. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS KNOCK-DOWN POWER.
energy is a mathmatical equasion derived from weight and speed. It does not reflect on bullet penetration or tissue damage or how fast it kills a deer.
Look I'm not knocking any of the guns mentioned they are all great guns, but when someone says something they no very little about I just have to step in. We were taliking about long range shooting and the .243 has better characteristics than most non magnum caliber guns. I just posted the ballistics and still you want to argue. With the Federal 100 gr BT it is a faltter shooter. less subceptible to wind drift and has more velocity. Velocity is what kills fast and cleanly not energy. Velocity will mushroom a bullet and do tissue damage, the bigger the bullet and the faster it goes the more tissue damage. thats why magnums are awsome, they shoot big lead at extreme velocity's way down range. Velocity velocity velocity. say it with me. VELOCITY.
PS. yes my .243 does go clean through deer , demolishing the internals. My son took three animals this past weekend one dropped the other 2 went 20 yd-25 yds max. When you skin them it looks like they were hit by a truck. This happens on all high caliber guns. not just limitied to your .308.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

We seem to have lost the original intent of this thread. We were asked for suggestions for the "best deer gun." Since I don't believe any ONE answer will work we should narrow the search a little. Please answer these questions.

1) What type of terrain do you hunt in? Hilly, flat, wooded, fields, mixed?
2) What type of weapons are legal where you hunt? (I presume rifles are legal from your post)
3) How big are the deer, on average, where you hunt?
4) How far will you be shooting, on average?
5) How much do you practice?
6) How big are you?
7) What level of recoil are you comfortable with?
8) How heavy of a gun do you want to carry?
9) Do you have a preference for action types? Lever, bolt, semi-auto?
10) How much are you willing to spend?

Answer these questions and we may be able to make some INTELLIGENT, informed suggestions.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Wow... Talondale said it all in his post. The best gun is really the best gun for your given situation.

Me? My rifle is a lever action Marlin 30-30. I hunt the thick stuff, brush, thickets, briars, swamps, and only out to about 100 yards at max.

Here's my setup (for whatever its worth....)

Bow: 10-40 yards (even closer if given the chance).
Shotgun: #00 Buck or rifled slugs, up to 50 yards.
30-30 Rifle: anything up to 100 yards is great (maybe 150... maybe)

Butch A.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

I agree with Talondale. Myself and others ventured into this thread for some meaningfull,Intelligent suggestions.

Lets stop raggin on each other and Get er Done on the topic at hand so I don't have to lock this thread!!

Maybe we should keep the range to 150 -350 yrds for weapons of choice(Deer). Any Deer deer shot/killed in excess of 350 yrds gets you a Thata Boy.


Lets stay on Topic

Thanks - AL

RE: best deer gun ?
 

While we are at it I have a question for you number crunchers. I'm looking to buy a new rifle myself. Right now I have a Win. Model 96 30-30 that was given to me by my Grandfather when I graduated from high school 20 years ago. I love the gun for obvious reasons but I can't do a top mount scope on it and would like to get a scope mounted gun. Most of what I do is short range stuff, < 100 yards, although 150-200 yard shots are possible in the rare instance. I want a good bolt action that will be able to go up to elk (since they are now legal game in western VA) without abusing my shoulder and has readily available OTC ammo in a range of loads. I was thinking about a Rem. 700 BDL SS in 30.06 since that caliber has a huge range of loads and can get 'er done. I saw someone mention .270 on elk earlier, I think. Is that a sufficient (meaning with overkill power) gun for elk?

RE: best deer gun ?
 

no such thing as knockdown power okay then, how about the diiference between a 32 cal bullet shot at a hopped up meth head, verses a say 45cal, and all you vets can help me with this -- A 45 has more stop em dead in their tracks knock down power, get hit in the head with a small rock then have someone throw a 3/4 inch rock and see which one KNOCKS YOU DOWN better. a 22 will kill a deer but it wont knock him down,
------------------------------------------------------------
TALONDALE- tried but couldnt say it as good as you did, ya hit it on the head,good job, too many variables for one gun...
--------------------------------------------------------------
love my 44 and its- knockdown power

RE: best deer gun ?
 

ya can drop a deer in its tracks with any caliber..22 to 300win mag all u need is a good neck shot. they wont even take a step.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

I just baught a Kimber 207WSM with a ziess scope, and a browning 270wsm, the Browning is so far superior to the Kimber it makes me sick. Normally I use a 7mm08 with ballistic tips 120 grain, now this caliber FLATTENS EM. Caribou at 500 yards no problem. Love MY Remington MNT 700

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Its al about ENERGY. the further the distance the less energy there is. of coarse a close shot with a 45 will Knok em down, but we unfortunately dont get these close shots when deer hunting. The lighter the bullet the less energy there is but greater killing distance, and the heavier the bullet the more energy but decreased killing distance. I have found with hand loading you can pick and choose your loads.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Zrex, I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken. No such thing as knock down power?? It's called ENERGY, and yes it's a simple equation... that's been proven again and again. My recommendation, take a physics class before you ramble on about velocity velocity velocity and ridicule everyone.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

You guys have no clue on what your talking about.
Claiming a .270 and 30-06 is a real gun and a .243 is not not. Let me give you the ballistics on 4 guns @ 500yds

--------------------- 500yd-----velocity----energy----drop zeroed@200yds

.243 100gr. federal sierras.--------2040--------925-----------39.9"
25-06-120gr corelocks-------------1825--------887-----------44.1"
.270-130gr corelock----------------1801--------936-----------43.3"
30-06-150gr.corelock--------------1622---------876----------50.9"

I think u made this chart up the remington cartridges are called CORELOKT not corelock or corelocks man u are the one who dont know what ur talkin about like i said b4 think b4 u speak

RE: best deer gun ?
 

here is some real ballistics of remington.com all the same cartridges

ENERGY (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 100 PSP CLU 1945 1629 1356 1120 917 745
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 150 PSP CLU 2820 2305 1868 1498 1188 933
Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 150 PSP CLU 2648 2159 1744 1394 1102 864

243 is on the top then the 30-06 then the 308 as u can seee the 243 is well below the 30-06 and the 308 right up to 500 yds. and energy my friend is what kills. now ZERX hopefully u learn something here

RE: best deer gun ?
 

ZREX, if you're saying im spewing about stuff i dont know about, then you're WRONG! im having a hard time expressing my anger at this statement without using something that would get me banned. i take offense to this. It's COMMON SENSE! a 100 grain bullet will drift more than a 150 grain bullet. take a piece of paper and a pencil. drop them off a height where there is some wind. i think the pencil should fall pretty much straight down while the piece of paper, crumpled or not, will shift. I've poured hours of research into this specific topic. i know what i'm talking about. the .243 also has a lack of Kinetic Energy compared the the .30's and the .270's and 7mm's..lighter bullets hit with less kinetic energy when moving at the same speed as a heavier bullet. Sure, the .243 may shoot out to 400 or 500 yards. it can do this. But the wind WILL blow it around, and it WILL NOT hit with anywhere near as close of energy as a .270, .30 cal gun, or 7mm gun. at 400 yards, the .243 loaded with a 100 grain bullet hits with 880 ft lbs of energy. a .30-06 witha 180 grain bullet hits with 1360 ft lbs of muzzle energy. thats darn near a 500 ft lb difference in Kinetic Energy!!!! The generally accepted number for minimum energy at impact point is 900 foot lbs. the .243 just doesnt deliver this at 400 yards.

Also Zrex, VELOCITY IS NOT EVERYTHING, if you havent already learned that. Roy Weatherby thought that way. Sure, you can get you bullet going 3400 FPS, but that doenst mean jack squat when compared to Kinetic energy. I guaruntee that a heavy dangerous game caliber like a .458 Win or a .416 Rigby traveling at a slower speed than your average deer gun caliber will kill a deer faster because of MORE KINETIC ENERGY. Velocity isnt anything when you compare it to KE.

Browning, thanks for a great table that is TRUTHFUL. No way in heck coulda .243 ever have more energy than a 130 grain bullet out of a .270 Win.

when it all boils down, from personal experience, the best deer gun is a Remington 700 MTN or a Model 700 BDL SS DM. The Mountain Rifle has an awesome combination of rock solid accuracy, light weight, and a nice looking gun over all. the BDL SS is all of that and weatherproof. the Detachable Magazines are very handy. no fumbling with loose shells. just put the magazine in and you're good to go.

slayer

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Every thing I posted is off of Federals web site. Go argue with them. The 100 gr federal sierra shows less wind drift than just about every non magnum caliber and was flatter shooting. One .federal 270 bullet was a tad better and one Federal 280 rem was a tad better. I post actuall data and and you call me a liar.
What started this is someone said the .243 aint no good at long range and I post data that shows it to be better than most. I'm sorry you cant accept this.
Faster, flatter, and less wind drift @ 500yds with 925 lb energy. Go compare for yourself

Now energy verses velocity is another issue. let me copy and paste something.



To begin with, the term “knockdown power” is a misnomer, unless you’re referring to a giant cannonball, or perhaps a motor vehicle crashing into a deer on some midnight highway.
Knockdown power, as it refers to sporting-rifle bullets, is an animal’s physical reaction to the bullet’s impact and entry. More specifically, if the animal falls immediately as if the earth has been jerked from under it, the bullet is said to have delivered knockdown power and the happy hunter congratulates himself for the wisdom of using a great caliber.

On the other hand, if the animal doesn’t fall immediately, wanders about or dashes off, even after being hit with a well-aimed shot, the caliber may be condemned as having poor or nonexistent knockdown power, its maker roasted in campfire effigies and lurid rumors spread.

The fact of the matter, however, is that no reasonably applied big-game caliber is either good or bad all the time—and there’s the rub.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

i am going to call you a liar. A .243 WITH A 100 GRAIN BULLET AT 500 YARDS DOES NOT HAVE MORE ENERGY THAN A .30 CAL OR A .270 LOADED A 130 OR 150 OR 180 BULLET!!!!!!! ITS THE TRUTH!!!!!! If its straight from their site, then im saying THEY'RE WRONG TOO! the bullet just doesnt have that much energy at that range, nor does it resist wind drift that well. it's physics 101.


slayer

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Ya I guess Federal's wrong, so is Remington, because deerslayer said so. Buwahahaha ! slayer your a characther.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

I agree with slayer the dont get me wrong the 243 is a great gun for small game like coyotes but it does not compare to the .30 caliber rifles like the .270 and the .308 go to remington.com its shows u all the ballistics the .243 is nuttin but a puddle jumper its a great gun for young hunters BUT IT AINT HALF THE GUN OF THE .30 CALIBER RIFLES

RE: best deer gun ?
 

if u read his post zerx slayer says the remington one is truthful which it is

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Puddle jumper huh you aint gonna like this next ballistic chart.


----------------------- @500 yds-----velocity-----energy

.243 85 gr. HP sierra gameking-----2180--------890lbs

30-06 150 gr Core lock-------------1622-------- 876lbs

RE: best deer gun ?
 

wow. zrex, where are you getting this information? That table is next to impossible to create in real life. an 85 grain bullet fired from a .243 SIMPLY DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME ENERGY AS A .30-06! TAKE A PHSYICS COURSE AND QUIT POSTING SOME BS GRAPHS!

slayer

RE: best deer gun ?
 

thats a great chart TOO BAD remingtons shell is called CORE-LOKT if ur gonna put this BS charts on this make sure u put the correct name for the cartridge

RE: best deer gun ?
 

If you know physics so much calculate it. I dont know the calculation but 85 gr. traveling at near 2200 fps will prolly calcualte out.
Like I said go to federals web site. need a link http://federalpremium.com/default.asp?br=1

RE: best deer gun ?
 

ENERGY (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Premier Scirocco Bonded 90 SSB 1946 1647 1388 1162 966 797
Premier Scirocco Bonded 150 SSB 2820 2421 2069 1758 1485 1246


ZERX ur chartts dont match the ones from remington.com as u can see the 243 aint close the gun a 30-06 is

RE: best deer gun ?
 

LOL. I call them core-junks

RE: best deer gun ?
 

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis...cs_results.asp

RE: best deer gun ?
 

Thats where I'm getting the core lockts ballistics.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

theres the right sight man u dont know when to quit do ya

RE: best deer gun ?
 

No because I comparing a .243 Federal premium bullet to a core Lockt.

RE: best deer gun ?
 

zrex, sorry buddy, but now is where i have to pull out my information from Hornady and put you to shame. before i start, i am going to say that im quite surprised that i found a .243 can hold its own as far as drop and velocity. i kind of expected to see this. i didnt find anything on wind drift. i would say that a 100 grain bullet would drift a bit more than a 150. its called inertia. heavier objects tend to resist a change in motion better than a lighter object, even when moving at the same speed.

500 yards, Velocity in FPS,Energy in ft. lbs

.30-06 150 gr interbond---1893/1193

.30-06 165 gr BTSP--------1848/1251

.243 100 grain BTSP-------1910/810

.243 95 grain SST----------1776/665


the .243 simply just doesnt have the energy for clean kills at long range. sure, it can fly that far with a relatively good velocity, but that doenst mean anything when you dont have the energy to kill the animal. great coyote caliber, and great gun out to 250. other than that, it should lay back and watch the big boys do the work.

slayer