tomshateme

Agree or disagree? I'm against legislating the size of deer we can harvest. Most of us here like to take trophy sized deer, but new hunters and young hunters need a chance to be successful also, or they will become discouraged and find another hobby. Hunter education is the key, and I believe with the amount of info being fed to us through magazines, tv shovs and videos, modern hunters will practice some control when it comes to smaller bucks. I, and most everyone i know will let a young buck walk in hopes of taking a trophy, filling our freezers with doe meat. We have gone antler crazy and I believe it's going to be the death of deer hunting as we know it. Big deer are out there, but they're hard to kill, that's what makes them trophies. During the 1960's, when there were hardly any deer to speak of in MO, my great uncle killed two big deer and no one cared about antler size. His sons had them scored a couple of years ago and they both went in the 180's. What AR's amount to is dumbing down the deer herd so anyone can kill a wallhanger. Letting stupid deer grow to be 5 or 6 years old makes for a lot of stupid offspring. Please post if you are a "trophy hunter" who didn't learn to hunt bucks by killing several 1 and 2 yr old deer. As I said before, hunter ed is the key, killing does in the place of young bucks. So what if your neighbor's kid killed the 6pt you let walk? Be happy for him. Our selfishness will be our ruination.

kevin1

I couldn't agree more , I've always been a meat hunter and I seriously doubt that it will ever change for me . Trophy hunting has commercialized the sport to the point that it endangers it .

Wooddust

I'll wade in...I disagree.

The deer herd varies across the country and in some areas is out of control for sheer numbers. That means that harvest will have to be used to maintain, manage, and be a major part of our management efforts by Departments of Conservation.

There is a balance that, once the herd size is where the officials and landowners want it, that should be maintained for good genetics, herd health, and so on. And that may mean that we need to alter the harvest patterns that we have...such as increased Doe harvest, harvesting does earlier in season, reduced buck harvest, selective harvest to manage age classes, etc.

The goals of deer management that were set in the 50s are no longer valid, its time to manage the resource better, not just have population increases as a goal.

Its sort of like slot limits in fish management. When fishermen become indiscriminant in their harvest....all sizes, over limits etc, you need to impose rules that will improve the fishery.

I know in Missouri, I see far too many immature bucks killed, not nearly the population of 3 year old deer and above, and not enough does harvested. It has made the deer population out of balance, increasing numbers, and poorer herd balance and health. Plus the property damage in crops in some areas is becoming a factor as well as highway kills.

When we as hunters learn that to harvest appropriately is the goal, and that the testosterone rush from a buck kill...even spikes and forkies is a thing of the past, we need rules and regs.

My vote is for antler restrictions. Its been proven time and time again to be the right thing for the resource and hunters will adapt after the initial complaints.

Wooddust

Need to adress some other points...since im all fired up...

We would be better served if we teach and demonstrate to new hunters, rules and behaviors that will serve them well in the future.

For example, selective harvest is a management tool that all of us need to embrace. We do it with birds like pheasants, fish, and turkeys. The Young hunter is not dismayed that he cannot kill a hen turkey. Why should deer be different?

Your point that you let a young buck walk and will take a doe for the freezer is preciesly the behavior we need. But left un regulated as it is now, far too many hunters think "Killing a buck" and going to town to talk about it is a better thing than taking a doe...its stupid its foolish...but thats the real world.

We should teach conservation and habitat quality to our new hunters, not just that killing a deer is the goal. And that hunting is the only way we manage or deer resource...and that we all have a responsibilty to help manage it through appropriate and selective harvest.

Thi is not just an "antler only issue" and when we confuse the issue of trophy hunting vs harvest goals, then it gets all confused and emotional.

As to the " I am a meat hunter" statement...thats great Kevin, your ability and freedom to harvest excellent venison will not be impaired one bit. In fact, you could harvest numerous nice fat healty does. So an antler restriction that strengthens the deer herd and heard health is exactly what you are needing as a meat hunter.

tazimna

I guess I'm one that favors antler size regs. I to see to many younger bucks(spikes,etc) getting taken each year. If ones state is after quality, then antler restriction is the way to go. I'm in Minnesota,unfortunatly IMO, our state manages the deer herd for revenue, and not so much numbers or quality. I hear some folks say they'll stop hunting if restrictions are set, and I think the state is worried about losing that revenue. It's sad to think that some hunters view their hunting experiences good or bad based on the "rack" size, instead of on the quality of the hunt, or the commadrie that occurs. Taz

Wooddust

Taz, I hear that same thing..."If they set antler restrictions, I'll just quit"....so I get really confused....why would they quit? Is there some reason that they are motivated to kill small bucks and not does? I feel waht these guys are saying is that killing a buck of any size is preferable to any doe....and if its an issue opportunity like "I kill the first deer I see cause I may not see another...well in Missouri, seeing deer for a deer hunter is not an issue, we are covered up in deer.

kevin1

Sounds like too many of you are eating "bone soup" , kill more does . Need help with that ?

I'd never quit hunting just because our DNR set antler restrictions , it really wouldn't impact me anyway , but I look at what's happening in Mississippi and other places that have them and I have to wonder if it's a good idea at all . The average size of racks in MS. is actually shrinking according to what I've read , is that what trophy hunters really want ?

Like Tazimna I like the cameraderie of hunting and the quality of the experience . I don't measure quality of the deer itself other than how much it's likely to dress out , I can't eat antlers and bragging rights have no value to me . I feel strongly enough that trophy hunting will kill hunting for regular folks that I bought a Lifetime hunting license last year , and I'm in the process of buying a home with some acreage so that I'll always have a place to hunt .

fillae

I have to agree whole-heartedly with Wooddust. The trophy hunters should be behind antler restrictions 100%. The county I hunt in back in Missouri is under the antler restriction. I think it's great. In three or four years, we are going to have some nice bucks, instead of the spindly 6-pointers that we have now (that is unless we have another flood).

Also, if I am correct, the youth hunts (at least in MO), do not have antler restrictions.

And finally, deer get smarter with age, so I don't think there are going to be stupid trophy bucks running around.

Handles

Tazimna,
I used to hear the same things from the guys I hunted with near Bemidji,MN. It took me a couple of years to talk them into passing on the little bucks and taking a doe. They are now having FUN hunting because there are some nice bucks (can you say 3 bucks over 150 last year) around and the young hunters are taking it all in stride. Isn't fun what it's all about? Many of those same MN boys were shocked to hear that WI has a 15 inch limit on walleyes. Those were the same guys throwing 14 inch perch out on the ice for the crows but keeping 12 inch walleyes. For some people things will never change UNTIL the rules change. I would much rather see people adopt a new attitude rather than have the state come in to change it out of nessessity. Wooddust, I think you hit every point on the nose. Any one arguing against you is showing their ignorance and selfishness toward nature, something that none of us own but we all hope to be a positive part of.

Jason N

I hate when Mississippi is brought up about AR. The restriction in MS is 2 points to a side....that's a friggin' fork horn yearling buck almost all of the time, almost everywhere in this country. That means you're almost only protecting spikes.

PA has an entirely different set of regs....3 or 4 to a side(depends on the unit you're hunting) and all points have to be 1" or longer. Main beam counts regardless of length. Browtines are considered a point, but still the 1" applies.

It's easy in MS to see a 'Y' and pull the trigger. In PA you have to see a 'Y', make sure it has brow tines and all have to be 1"....not as easy and not as quick. Even tougher in the 4pt areas.

Follow the link to PA's AR explanation. We also attempt to discourage hunters from looking for buttons and passing!

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/lib/p...strictions.pdf