My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
10-06-2004, 03:59 AM
#11
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location:
Posts: 163
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
oh boy another anti trying to inflict his closed minded beliefs onto the people that surround him. i wouldn't even spend the time to answer him. he will believe whatever he wants to, nothing you say or do will change his mind. just let him eat his veggies and hug his trees.......................i'd rather be hunting.
10-06-2004, 06:15 AM
#12
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
PERMISSION FROM THE LANDOWNER:
He saw Heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners, it contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. then the Lord said, "Get up Peter, kill and eat". That is why I hunt, God said to kill and eat, so I kill and eat.
He saw Heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners, it contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. then the Lord said, "Get up Peter, kill and eat". That is why I hunt, God said to kill and eat, so I kill and eat.
10-06-2004, 07:28 AM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 486
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
My father, who was raised in the city, never approved of my going hunting. But he was always a gentleman, and never really tried to talk me out of it.
I can understand why people are opposed to hunting--on the surface, they (birds or deer or whatever) are just innocent creatures making their way through the world, same as you or I. And most of them are darned cute, too.
But looking more closely, there's more than sentiment involved. On a recent trip through Wisconsin, I saw literally dozens or road-kill deer. That just depressed me. Hunters work for a clean kill, and eat what they shoot. A deer wounded by a car dies a terrible death, and the carcass is left to rot. Plus, the driver of the vehicle may have been seriously injured or killed.
What's "humane" about that?
Seeing an animal die (let alone causing that death) is a moving experience; one minute, the animal is alive, and the next, it isn't. But life is like that. Anyone who doesn't think so is kidding himself.
I can understand why people are opposed to hunting--on the surface, they (birds or deer or whatever) are just innocent creatures making their way through the world, same as you or I. And most of them are darned cute, too.
But looking more closely, there's more than sentiment involved. On a recent trip through Wisconsin, I saw literally dozens or road-kill deer. That just depressed me. Hunters work for a clean kill, and eat what they shoot. A deer wounded by a car dies a terrible death, and the carcass is left to rot. Plus, the driver of the vehicle may have been seriously injured or killed.
What's "humane" about that?
Seeing an animal die (let alone causing that death) is a moving experience; one minute, the animal is alive, and the next, it isn't. But life is like that. Anyone who doesn't think so is kidding himself.
10-06-2004, 02:48 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
Your uncle asked what the purpose of hunting was to some typical hunters. I'll get to that.
I have hunted for a long time, but as an adult found myself wanting to counter several arguments against hunting. I want to share these with you. 1. "You shouldn't hunt because it is immoral to take life." I choose to eat meat. There is no moral superiority to eating beef killed by a third party to eating game which I kill myself. If you are not a vegetarian, argument #1 has no weight. 2. "You are eradicating a species." No game animal species is threatened with endangerment by sport hunting. If numbers get low, licenses are limited or prohibited. This is not an issue. There are more Elk, Turkey, Whitetail deer, pronghorn antelope and other species of game animals as a result of modern sport hunting than there would have been without sport hunting (money is collected from sales of guns and ammunition which goes to supporting habitat, and there are advocacy groups such as Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and others that promote specific species). 3. "Shooting an animal causes pain and suffering to the animal." This argument cannot be walked around. What I have realized, however, is that every wild animal must die -- just as every human being must die. The chances are extremely high that the death that I as a hunter will deal to the game I hunt will be less painful and horrible than the death the game animal will suffer in natural death. Natural death for deer includes slow starvation in wintery conditions (usually during a colder than average winter), being run down by a pack of coyotes and eaten alive, slow death resulting from an accident of some sort which disadvantages the game animal. This reflection came to me when I was disturbed by the knowledge that however much I practice at the rifle range, it is by no means guaranteed that my shot on a game animal will put it down quickly and cleanly. This is certainly my objective, but it doesn't always happen that way. For me, my answers to these three moral questions satisfy my conscience.
Why do I hunt instead of sitting in by the fire reading a good book or sleeping in or watching a football game? Why do I set my alarm and get up at 4 AM and prepare to go out into the cold and labor to bag a deer? The answer is complex. I will mention a number of things that appear to be independent, but they intermix and cooperate in my mind. I like the outdoors and more particularly the wilds. I take pleasure in being self-reliant in the wilds -- being able to build a fire, being able to find my way through the wilds, being able to pitch a camp, etc. I like doing things for myself, including gutting my deer, skinning my deer, quartering my deer, cutting my deer into serving pieces, packaging my deer. I also like to cook a lot and am a very good cook, and I am motivated to hunt at least partially to obtain excellent game for lucullan feasts, but this is sort of a peripheral, extra-curricular component of my motivation to hunt. I like hunting because I did it as a child, I did it with my father. I like hunting now because my father did it. I like hunting because I like to imagine my deceased father knowing about my hunting and sharing in my successes, somehow. I like the connection between my hunting and what people did during frontier days in our country and far before this when all people's depended upon hunting for a substantial part of their sustenance. When I look up at Orion, the constellation of the hunter, while waiting for shooting light to come I enjoy the connection with hunters that goes back through time immemorial. And be advised this connection is real. We have advanced technology relative to these earlier hunters, but it is by no means an automatic function that you are going to bag game when you are afield. The game is wiley and the hunter often is disappointed. I have to haul my body around and suffer various pains to bag my deer.
I have hunted for a long time, but as an adult found myself wanting to counter several arguments against hunting. I want to share these with you. 1. "You shouldn't hunt because it is immoral to take life." I choose to eat meat. There is no moral superiority to eating beef killed by a third party to eating game which I kill myself. If you are not a vegetarian, argument #1 has no weight. 2. "You are eradicating a species." No game animal species is threatened with endangerment by sport hunting. If numbers get low, licenses are limited or prohibited. This is not an issue. There are more Elk, Turkey, Whitetail deer, pronghorn antelope and other species of game animals as a result of modern sport hunting than there would have been without sport hunting (money is collected from sales of guns and ammunition which goes to supporting habitat, and there are advocacy groups such as Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and others that promote specific species). 3. "Shooting an animal causes pain and suffering to the animal." This argument cannot be walked around. What I have realized, however, is that every wild animal must die -- just as every human being must die. The chances are extremely high that the death that I as a hunter will deal to the game I hunt will be less painful and horrible than the death the game animal will suffer in natural death. Natural death for deer includes slow starvation in wintery conditions (usually during a colder than average winter), being run down by a pack of coyotes and eaten alive, slow death resulting from an accident of some sort which disadvantages the game animal. This reflection came to me when I was disturbed by the knowledge that however much I practice at the rifle range, it is by no means guaranteed that my shot on a game animal will put it down quickly and cleanly. This is certainly my objective, but it doesn't always happen that way. For me, my answers to these three moral questions satisfy my conscience.
Why do I hunt instead of sitting in by the fire reading a good book or sleeping in or watching a football game? Why do I set my alarm and get up at 4 AM and prepare to go out into the cold and labor to bag a deer? The answer is complex. I will mention a number of things that appear to be independent, but they intermix and cooperate in my mind. I like the outdoors and more particularly the wilds. I take pleasure in being self-reliant in the wilds -- being able to build a fire, being able to find my way through the wilds, being able to pitch a camp, etc. I like doing things for myself, including gutting my deer, skinning my deer, quartering my deer, cutting my deer into serving pieces, packaging my deer. I also like to cook a lot and am a very good cook, and I am motivated to hunt at least partially to obtain excellent game for lucullan feasts, but this is sort of a peripheral, extra-curricular component of my motivation to hunt. I like hunting because I did it as a child, I did it with my father. I like hunting now because my father did it. I like hunting because I like to imagine my deceased father knowing about my hunting and sharing in my successes, somehow. I like the connection between my hunting and what people did during frontier days in our country and far before this when all people's depended upon hunting for a substantial part of their sustenance. When I look up at Orion, the constellation of the hunter, while waiting for shooting light to come I enjoy the connection with hunters that goes back through time immemorial. And be advised this connection is real. We have advanced technology relative to these earlier hunters, but it is by no means an automatic function that you are going to bag game when you are afield. The game is wiley and the hunter often is disappointed. I have to haul my body around and suffer various pains to bag my deer.
10-06-2004, 05:17 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baumholder, DEU/By Way of Arkansas
Posts: 2,849
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
Welcome to the site 9pointer, I'll try to post a decent reply later, but I have to go right now.
Welcome to the site...good question to help start off your posting here!
Welcome to the site...good question to help start off your posting here!
10-06-2004, 06:30 PM
#18
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ponce de Leon Florida USA
Posts: 10,079
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
I would be interested in knowing more about good ol' Unc. Is he a hypocrit? Does he spray his house for bugs? Does he not cut his grass in fear he will harm crickets and other insects that live there? Does he tolerate mice and rats in his house? Does he walk everywhere he goes while sweeping the ground before him making sure he doesn't harm any insects (surely there are no splattered little bugs on his grill)? etc, etc, etc.
10-07-2004, 06:13 AM
#19
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: INDIANA INDIANA INDIANA
Posts: 158
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
and just think about CWD. If the deer herds ever did get overpopulated, the diseases would spread like wildfire and more deer could die by that than they would by hunters! this is the truth. Banned Hunting=Extinct Deer, mabe not that far, but it wouldnt be good at all.
10-07-2004, 11:12 AM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 494
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
Some excerpts from replies so far:
----------------------------
My first thought is this is not even worthy of a response because anti-hunters are not educated on exactly what you are asking us to do.
know that most anti-hunters are very closed minded.
I hope your girlfriend is smarter than her uncle.
.....take him fishing . make sure you give him the HEAVY life vest!
oh boy another anti trying to inflict his closed minded beliefs onto the people that surround him.
Is he a hypocrit? Does he spray his house for bugs? Does he not cut his grass in fear he will harm crickets and other insects
---------------------------------
Geeze guys - who the he11 do you think you are? Just because a guy, who apparently is not a hunter, asks a question, you talk like he's not only stupid, but closed minded and evil. And you wonder why there's such strong opinions among some against gun owners and hunters - it's because a lot of us come across as unreasonable, rigid, a$$holes who hate, yes, literally hate, anyone who disagrees in any shape or form. This is the sad direction both the right and left are going these days - the opposition is not entitled to their opinion, mine's absolutely right, they are stupid, wrong and not even worth acknowledging or talking to.
Go back and read the very reasonable and well thought out answers that some posted. This is how you should be talking to people. Especially the part about everyone being entitled to their own opinion. Remember, you get all pissed off when the "antis" try to inflict their opinion on you - but truth be told, you do the same.
And people who ask these questions aren't "anti" until proven so. They're just asking a question fercrissakes! Can you imagine how strange it must seem to sneak around and kill animals - to someone who didn't grow up doing it or even being exposed to it? It's a perfectly expected reaction! They're not "anti" until you make them so by forcing them into a "you're for me or against me" position.
My opinion? I'm a hunter and fisher. I like to kill and eat animals. I draw no moral distinction between having the stockyard or commercial fisherman kill it vs. myself. My family and I like the taste of wild game and fish and think it's healthy food. The hobby does cost money (As Jeff Foxworthy says "I provide my family with the most expensive cut of meat on earth!"), but it does pay off, at least a little, in something to eat. The wildlife population, properly managed, can support this personal preference of mine.
However, the animals belong just as much to those among us who don't care to kill them, but for instance, might actually enjoy them to watch and be around. There's a LOT of people who feel this way and there's an increasing amount of businesses who make their living helping thme do it. They are all US citizens just like you and me. If you sit down and have a beer (OK, it might be a Latte) with them, you might find that with this one exception, they live and think right up your own alley.
I'll have to say, that's the way I feel about predators, in general (knowing there's specific situations where they should be controlled). I'm a kill it and eat it kind of guy. I have no desire to kill a predator for the sake of hanging it's pelt or head on the wall. But go ahead and do it if you want, I really don't care. Me, I get a big thrill out of seeing wolves and bears in the wild and will probably never kill one unless in self defense. I'm real bunny hugger in that regard (but actually like to eat bunnies!).
We all have our own set of contradictions. Live with it.
But this idea that anyone who questions hunting is an ignorant, evil ENEMY is really off base in my opinion and, as an editorial comment, what's wrong with the political parties (BOTH!!) these days. Be better than that guys.
----------------------------
My first thought is this is not even worthy of a response because anti-hunters are not educated on exactly what you are asking us to do.
know that most anti-hunters are very closed minded.
I hope your girlfriend is smarter than her uncle.
.....take him fishing . make sure you give him the HEAVY life vest!
oh boy another anti trying to inflict his closed minded beliefs onto the people that surround him.
Is he a hypocrit? Does he spray his house for bugs? Does he not cut his grass in fear he will harm crickets and other insects
---------------------------------
Geeze guys - who the he11 do you think you are? Just because a guy, who apparently is not a hunter, asks a question, you talk like he's not only stupid, but closed minded and evil. And you wonder why there's such strong opinions among some against gun owners and hunters - it's because a lot of us come across as unreasonable, rigid, a$$holes who hate, yes, literally hate, anyone who disagrees in any shape or form. This is the sad direction both the right and left are going these days - the opposition is not entitled to their opinion, mine's absolutely right, they are stupid, wrong and not even worth acknowledging or talking to.
Go back and read the very reasonable and well thought out answers that some posted. This is how you should be talking to people. Especially the part about everyone being entitled to their own opinion. Remember, you get all pissed off when the "antis" try to inflict their opinion on you - but truth be told, you do the same.
And people who ask these questions aren't "anti" until proven so. They're just asking a question fercrissakes! Can you imagine how strange it must seem to sneak around and kill animals - to someone who didn't grow up doing it or even being exposed to it? It's a perfectly expected reaction! They're not "anti" until you make them so by forcing them into a "you're for me or against me" position.
My opinion? I'm a hunter and fisher. I like to kill and eat animals. I draw no moral distinction between having the stockyard or commercial fisherman kill it vs. myself. My family and I like the taste of wild game and fish and think it's healthy food. The hobby does cost money (As Jeff Foxworthy says "I provide my family with the most expensive cut of meat on earth!"), but it does pay off, at least a little, in something to eat. The wildlife population, properly managed, can support this personal preference of mine.
However, the animals belong just as much to those among us who don't care to kill them, but for instance, might actually enjoy them to watch and be around. There's a LOT of people who feel this way and there's an increasing amount of businesses who make their living helping thme do it. They are all US citizens just like you and me. If you sit down and have a beer (OK, it might be a Latte) with them, you might find that with this one exception, they live and think right up your own alley.
I'll have to say, that's the way I feel about predators, in general (knowing there's specific situations where they should be controlled). I'm a kill it and eat it kind of guy. I have no desire to kill a predator for the sake of hanging it's pelt or head on the wall. But go ahead and do it if you want, I really don't care. Me, I get a big thrill out of seeing wolves and bears in the wild and will probably never kill one unless in self defense. I'm real bunny hugger in that regard (but actually like to eat bunnies!).
We all have our own set of contradictions. Live with it.
But this idea that anyone who questions hunting is an ignorant, evil ENEMY is really off base in my opinion and, as an editorial comment, what's wrong with the political parties (BOTH!!) these days. Be better than that guys.