RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Semi. You may have some good points however one good thing comes of the gotta have the new stuff. Every trick or gimick or sales pitch that sells more guns is good for the industry and every sale that creates another gun owner is a plus as well. Things selling is also what keeps the companies striving to create more and better products. An example that I was just reading this morning about the new Glock GAP 45. Was there really a need for another caliber that duplicates the 45 ACP. Maybe not but its a gun in a good caliber that fits smaller hands and already three companies are busy trying to outdo each other to make ammo for it. Every little thing that gets in the way of the anti gunners is a HUGE plus for the rest of us. So buy a new caliber or buy an old caliber. No matter. Help support the entire industry. I sometimes get a little upset at people that claim that the gun writers have an agenda to push. Hell yes they do and what better agenda than pushing gun sales. Most everyone has a job selling a product or selling themselves or a service. Thats what makes Amercas world turn.:D

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Well put James B.

By the way, you need to change your name my friend. That's my name too so I'm always confused (more than normal) when I see your name up there.:D

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Your analogy is flawed because the Model T puts around at 15 mph, which means getting to the store in twice/thrice as much time as a modern car. On the other hand, the end result with either a .30-06 or .300UM is the same: a very dead deer, very quickly.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

If you state the '06 is good enough for everything why would you need a 300 Win down the road then?

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

I completely agree JamesB. And these are some of the reasons i would like to have every caliber made. I was just stating that i try to stay away from fads when i buy. Next gun will be a 30.30, or a 7mm.08.. I just like the proven stuff that is reasonable to shoot at the range.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

I shoot the 280 and would not trade it for any other caliber for deer. If you handload you can reach near standard factory 7MM Magnum ammo velocities. If you don't handload there are loads available from Federal, Winchester, Speer, and Remington. I favor the 140 gr. BST from Winchester if I have to use factory ammo. There are also loads available if you feel like taking on elk.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Like I said, I'm going to Alaska. It's rought and tough up there, with plenty of wide-open space. If I'm going to have to shoot a moose at a very long disance, I want to be ready for anything. Not to mention that the .30-06, while certainly capable of killing a brown bear, is probably not the best choice for one that is charging.

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i agree with james b as well... the more gun owners we recruit, the less chance the democraps will have to pass their gun control/banning laws...

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

I guess I see your argument Six. You are looking purely at a deer hunting round ( the name of this thread). I was looking at a rifle that can do more than just deer hunt that also is more than good enough for deer.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

pointer, in factory ammo the 280 will still hold a slight edge in both FPS and LBS to the 270win when comparing apples to apples. I will not argue the availibilty of ammo or rifles chambered in a 280 rem., in fact I mentioned this in my original post. The nice thing about a 280 (IF you plan to hunt Elk) is the ability to go above 150gr bullet. That being said the 140Gr failsafe in a 270 has accounted for 2 elk and 3 moose for me in the past, so it will get the job done if you do your part. Either are fine choices though, best of luck.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

While I am speaking of the .30-06 in terms of deer, I am also saying it's quite suitable for both larger and smaller game. In addition to deer/elk/moose, I plan on using mine for black bear, hogs, and maybe even coyotes.

What I'm trying to say is that I've never been charged by a brown bear. I'm not confident that I would be able to place a clean kill shot on such dangerous game running at me at full speed. It's a matter of safety; I don't have a death wish. The .30-06 is plenty for anything else in my hands.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

When I think in these terms I think of a round for deer, elk, black bear, antelope, maybe moose, cariboo. I agree for big, dangerous game a bigger caliber is better. I agree the '06 is ok for these game species. So is the 7mm's and some would argue the 270's. You can probably kill anything with a .22 but that isn't the best option for most hunting.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Power. I am not sure but I have probably had this name longer that you have. 60 years?:D:D If I do the Alaska thing I will have the 45-70 for a back-up gun. I already have a 30-06 Pump and a Lever action Marlin 45-70. A guy at coffee this morning told me if you carry a flashlite in the woods then the bears can't hurt you. I told him I didn't believe that but he assured be that if you carry it fast enogh they can't get you.;)

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LOL! You got me beat James B but not by twice at least.

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I like the 270, 280 & 338-06.:D The 30-06 would be my last choice but it would also work just fine.:(

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Actually I hunted with a Grizzly Bear guide and his weapon of choice and the one he carried was a 30-06 Pump with five 220 grain Barnes bullets in it. He figured five shots with the 220 grain 06 would stop anything. Also there was nothing else that he could get off more than a couple shots in a pinch. The sectional density of the 30 caliber 220-250 grn bullets is extremly high and at near point blank range it will out penetrat the faster cartridges because of slightly less velocity therefore expansion. If you have ever seen anything hit at close range with a 220 grain round nose from a 30-06 you will know why he chose that combo. I was once quiding a hunter who shot a mule deer buck broadside in the hind quarters. There was nothing left of it and I do mean nothing. A grizzly is not a mule deer but that bullet even at only 2400 fps will do terrific damage to any thing in its path. After hunting with him I would choose the same combo. If I could work a lever gun anywhere near as fast as a pump then I would use the 45-70. In any event I would have them both along and want for nothing more. If I were going just to hunt Grizzly where I might shoot at longer range I would use a 375 H&H. Its miles ahead of about anything else for hunting the big bears but for self defense which would be a closer range there is nothing I would have more faith in than my 30-06 Pump. I alredy have a couple of clip fulls of 220 grain Hornad RN loaded for just that reason. I also load a box of 190 grain BTSP for big game trips.

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for bear or dangerous game up close, my choice is a pump action 12 gauge loaded with 3 rounds of 00 Buck and 2 slugs. But that's just me. Even i couldn't miss with that combo.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Semi that was his second choice. He really didn't like for them to get that close if there was any way around it. If the animal was down he used the 12 Ga to approach the downed beast.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

7mm

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

i am deffinitely not going to do any DG, so i don't need to worry about that.. i may carry my 12 gauge for protection, and maye approach, but i would only kill DG if it were life and death for me... i still think i will get the 270 and use it on eder/smaller game, maye even mulies or something...

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Hi semi,

When we lived in Alaska one of our camp guns was a short barreled 12 gauge pump. But the only slugs I would carry in it were Brenneke. Foster style slugs are "too soft" to insure good penetration on animals the size of Brown Bears....especially if the skull is hit. I wouldn't trust buckshot to penetrate either....except at "contact range". In which case I'd still rather have the Brenneke.

Probably the Brenneke Super Magnum or the Black Magic Magnum slugs would be best. They both have a 1 3/8 ounce hardened slug but the Super Magnum is for rifled barrels only while the Black Magic Magnum is for smooth bores. Both loads have 3,000-plus foot pounds of muzzle energy (well in excess of normal foster loads) and they are the loads the company recommends for large or "dangerous" game out to 100 yards. In performance.....there is no comparison whatever with these and Foster style slugs.

Buckshot is great for threats from man....and for use against "light" big game. And though there are instances that it....and even bird shot have been successfully used for defense against large animals......it is too uncertain. There are many more instances of it failing to penetrate the skull....or even sufficiently on body shots to big animals. British SSG (size of 000) was used some as back up in Africa on the cats. It usually worked fine for Leopard, (which is really about the weight of a whitetail), but was only good for Lion at the last possible moment. And at contact range....buckshot is really just a "loosely assembled" slug. At the "end of the muzzle" the pattern hasn't started spreading yet. Very few experienced Alaskan outdoorsman use buckshot in Brown Bear country. Invariably those guns are loaded with slugs. And by a clear margin Brenneke gets the nod!

If you get a chance and the time.....try your own penetration test between the above mentioned Brenneke's and Fosters.......you'll know exactly what I mean after that. The 12 gauge is a very good gun for close range defense against many threats.....but ammunition selection is crucial!

Dave

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

For Deer I use the 270win Sako Hunter it's the best rifle I've ever used for deer.

nubo

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

great post akbound. When i used to hunt with my 12 ga i was always trying to find a reliable slug. I started using 3" magnum from Remmington. They worked okay, but i was never really that impressed with the range. I would say that 100 yards was a stretch. This is only going on gut feel. But i took a shot one time and missed (slug went low) and i was aiming high. so the drop was pretty dramatic.

What i figured was with 00 Buck, if you hit a bear in the face or head or anywhere around there, it would most likely blind the beast. I have heard blinding them works in an attack. Don't remember where, but go for the eyes sockets. Plus i thought the pattern would make up for any mis direction of my gun as i am running full speed ahead if you get my point.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

Hi semi,

If the shot happens to hit the eyes.....there is a very good chance of it entering the brain....and being nearly instantly fatal. Not long ago was a post on this site where a man in western United States grabbed a .410 loaded with 6 shot I believe.....and went to investigate what he thought was raccoons in the chickencoop. When he got outside (in the dark) he saw two grizzly cubs and just then a 300-400 lb grizzly sow came charging out of the coop. One quick shot was all he had time for. He was so close the wad was stuck in the bear. But the shot charge hit the bear in the eye.....entered the brain....and she dropped at his feet! But I have no doubt....he wouldn't want to try it again!

Actually if you hit the bear in the head with the shot, (and the more likely there is that there is actually a "pattern"......the further the bear actually is....and the less effective the shot becomes), unless you are fortunate enough to have it enter the brain through an existing opening, it is not likely to penetrate the skull. In which case you have a bear that was in a "bad mood"......but now is probably in a "murderous rage". And I know bears don't actually have that emotion.....but they do get enraged by pain! End result....you get "beat up" even worse for your trouble!

When we were in Alaska a grizzly was hit with a motorvehicle on the Glenn Highway just outside of Eagle River. It wasn't a particularly large grizzly but it had several mangled legs and severe internal injuries. One of the motorist had a 20 gauge with 2 3/4" Brennekes, not the Magnum load. This slug was 7/8 of an ounce.....and harder than foster slugs...but from about 15-20 yards the slug "cracked the skull" of the bear.....and the bear expired shortly afterward. Of course it wasn't known that the slug hadn't fully penetrated through the skull into the cranial cavity....until Fish & Game Dept. personnel had removed the hide. The shot had contributed to the animal expiring....there was swelling and bruising of brain matter and some small bone splinters......but the slug had not entered the skull. If the bear hadn't already suffered massive internal injuries.....I'm not sure that 20 gauge would have got the job done on that occasion. When it was learned the motorist traded their 20 gauge for a 12 gauge with Magnum Brennekes. (One of the local gun shops did a photo op for a newspaper exchanging guns for the individual with very little additional expense. Great PR!)

Any how, when the animals get that size.......and truly dangerous....I want to be a little more certain! Coastal Brownie's when full grown, down on all fours, are nearly as tall as an average man's shoulders. I think once the bear gets its head within two or three arms reach.....you'd be able to hit him for certain! Ouch.....if you don't;)!

Dave

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

7mm mag. Good luck man.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

The thing to think about is how much money you have to spend. A wise man once told my "No matter what caliber or brand of gun you buy make sure it has a good scope. I was 13 years old when he told me this. I bought a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in a 30.06 and bought a cheap scope. Now I learned that man was right. If you can't aford a browning with a leupold then find a gun that you can. Or save and get a good scope and gun.

RE: deer rifle caliber
 

I have to agree with marty1028, get a good rifle in any of those calibers (I like the .270 for deer, 30-06 for elk, and if I ever go for moose I will get a .300 Win Mag) and then put the best scope you can possibly afford on it. I have a 30-06 with a cheap scope on it, and I have not hunted with it for 3 years ever since I put a Nikon Monarch 3-10x50 on my .270 BAR. It isn't that I don't appreciate the 30-06, I just hate using that inferior scope. Leupold, Nikon, Zeiss, Swarovski and several others make excellent scopes. If you have to save up for a while to get a better scope I think it is worth it in the end. Remember, if you cant see it you wont be able to hit it. :D

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pointerDixie, I feel that you will be very pleased with your choice of the .270 as a deer rifle. Be sure to get a quality scope.

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7mm rem mag.....great choice