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-   -   Talk about long-range shooting...read this (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/53779-talk-about-long-range-shooting-read.html)

PAhunter86 02-21-2004 10:12 PM

Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Go the distance
By Ad Crable
Dec 11, 2002, 13:45 EST
Lancaster New Era


Long-range deer hunters use powerful optics, rifles to shoot from one mountain to another.

SEVEN MOUNTAINS, Mifflin County -- Oblivious to the trucks grinding up the busy Route 322 incline less than 100 feet behind them, three orange-clad men in portable chairs hunch over high-powered binoculars mounted on tripods.

Like the other 1 million hunters in Pennsylvania during the first week of deer season, they strain to glimpse a whitetail.

Only their shot, if it comes, will cross Cox's Valley and be aimed at a facing mountainside, a distance of 600 to 800 yards -- more than six times the range of a typical deer hunter's rifle shot.

A day before, a couple mountains over, Edward McQueen Jr. of Narvon had gotten his first long-range-hunting deer with a 875-yard shot from one mountain to another -- a distance of a half-mile.

He hit the deer on his 10th shot. Between the shots, which consumed more than a half-hour, a team of hunters, not unlike artillery gunmen zeroing in on a target, used computer technology to factor in temperature, wind speed, distance, the weight of the bullet -- even altitude.

This is long-range hunting, a small but growing passion among deer hunters who have the patience and money to indulge.

Hunters work in teams and set up on lofty points where they can scan entire mountainsides for foraging deer oblivious to their presence.

The Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania is one popular spot. So is the quite visible roadside ridge on Seven Mountains outside State College where Tony Panunzio, Jeff Eby and Joe Lefevre of Yeagertown, Mifflin County are set up.

They get a lot of honks, some from well wishers, some from anti-hunters and some from disapproving hunters. ""Get in the woods and hunt!'' some have yelled. Others see the portable grills and and chairs and think it's a lazy hunter's sport.

"They think this is so easy, but it's not. You don't just get behind the gun and shoot. We might sit here three to four days and never shoot the gun,'' says Panunzio, a logger who has hunted this way since he was old enough to carry a gun.

"A lot of people just think you're throwing lead across the hill,'' adds McQueen. A hunter who seeks primitive and challenging ways to hunt deer, he became hooked after stumbling onto a group of long-range hunters several years ago on a backcountry Mifflin County road.

John, who has hunted deer from long distance for 30 years, knows better.

Because of the touchiness of the subject, the Mifflin County hunter asked that his real name not be printed.

John shoots competitively with bench rifles in 1,000-yard shoots, has taken deer from up to 950 yards and calls long-range hunting a science.

Among the $10,000 in equipment he lugs around for the sport are five rifles which he uses for different conditions. The rifles are customized with calibers that range from 6 mm to 338////378.

The guns weigh up to 72 pounds, which is partly why they are fired from tripods or on gun benches. Another reason for the support is the extreme accuracy needed when firing at such distances.

At this distance, breathing too hard or squeezing the trigger off-center can throw the shot way off.

John, who hunts with one of a half-dozen or so long-range hunt outfits in Mifflin County, spends weeks experimenting with different loads in his bullets to find the combination of powder, primer and shell casings that best fits each rifle.

To find deer, he uses two spotting scopes that are bracketed together to work like a pair of binoculars. Others buy old World War II vintage tank or ship binoculars.

When a deer is sighted (the hunter who spies the deer often gets the shot), a range finder is used to gauge its distance from the shooter.

Then John checks the wind (he has a wind wheel stuck in the ground), temperature, humidity and other factors.

He pulls out a folder which contains a computer-calibrated click chart that tells him how much to adjust the scope mounted on his rifle.

Some long-range hunters make adjustments after the first shot. But John, who has killed about a dozen deer up to eight points, goes to great strides to make the first shot a killing one.

Even sunshine can be a factor in shooting. Looking into the sun creates an optical illusion and makes the deer look higher than it is, John explains. Shade can have the opposite effect.

While one hunter shoots, the others have their optics glued to the deer.

One hunter stands directly behind the shooter because the trained eye can actually see the bullet flying through the air at 3,000 feet per second.

That's because the bullet piercing the air gives off a bubbling effect.

Even if the bullet isn't picked up in flight, the others see where the bullet hits the ground if it misses the mark.

Often, a miss will not spook the deer, giving the hunters second, third and additional chances.

"We shot 50 shots one day at a buck and as far as I know that sucker's still out there,'' John says.

Long-range hunters contend that theirs is about the safest form of deer hunting. No tree stands to fall out of, no unseen hunters in the line of fire -- other hunters in blaze orange are readily visible.

"Shooting into the side of a mountain is the best backstop in the world,''John says.

The lone rifle is mounted on a tripod or shooting bench and is not even loaded until ready to be fired, all but eliminating loading accidents, points out McQueen.

Also, long-rangers, because they can follow a deer from one end of the mountain to another, are less likely to lose a wounded deer.

Of course, when long-rangers are successful, the drag out can consume the rest of the day. The hunter hoofs it ove to the far mountain where his colleagues direct him to the deer via two-way radios. It took McQueen 45 minutes just to reach his downed doe.

"Anybody can walk out and shoot a deer,'' says McQueen, who for the last 15 years has gotten his with a bow and arrow, muzzleloader or pistol.

"I'm a detail-oriented person and you have so many variables (in long-range rifle hunting) that there are so many things that have to be exact to make that shot.''

Gobbling Buck 02-22-2004 03:27 AM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
Is this thread posted to start some controversy? I have some educated reservations about this subject especially at this extreme.

timbercruiser 02-22-2004 08:45 AM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
I read a magazine article about this type of shooting (I don't call it hunting) several years ago. At that time all I could do was shake my head and wonder what those people had in between their ears. To make the statement that they shot 50 times at a deer one day and didn't get him makes it obvious they have no idea where their bullet is going. They just pop one out there and try to adjust their next one, two, five, ten or fifty shots hoping that they get a killing hit. I would bet that for every kill they get there is at least two gut shot or otherwise hit deer they never recover. And hunters wonder why the public maintains their bad opinion of hunting.

JimboHunter1 02-22-2004 08:55 AM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
Somebody told me about this several years ago and I doubted that it actually happened. Like Timbercruiser says, it's hard to tell how many deer are maimed or killed by these guys. Another concern I have is how do the shooters know for sure that there are no other people on the hillside they're firing into? With that type of shooting going on, I wouldn't be found anywhere within 20 miles of that place. [:o]

PAhunter86 02-22-2004 10:29 AM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Is this thread posted to start some controversy?
Nope, I just posted it because I thought it was an interesting article to read, and thought I would share it.

Gobbling Buck 02-22-2004 07:46 PM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
The reason I asked about the controversy, is because I don't like throwing stones at other hunters about their methods of hunting (high fences, bow vs gun, etc). However, I have shot literally thousands of rounds at 500 meters while shooting competitively in the Marine Corps and know what it takes to put a single round into your target at the given distance. While they do make a point that this is very difficult to do (while doing this type of "hunting"), I think this type of challenge should be reserved for paper targets instead of a marginal (at best) hit on an animal. IMHO these guys should have enough respect for their quarry and for the safety of other hunters not to even attempt shots like these. As far as a mountain being a great backstop for shooting, I thought most mountains were of a rock formation. Can anybody say ricochet? This brings to mind a night fire FPF demonstration I once saw while in Marine Combat Training where tracer rounds were being fired into a mountain. One of the tracers went straight up in the air, for what seemed like 2000 feet, after hitting one of the rocks on the mountain.

While I agree that this type of shooting requires a high level of skill, it doesn't have a place when responsibly attempting to take game.[:'(]

bambikiller6 02-22-2004 07:50 PM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
"We shot 50 shots one day at a buck and as far as I know that sucker's still out there,'' John says.

as far as i know, what dose he mean as far as i know, how well would he know where to look for blood at that far?

but each to their own

James B 02-22-2004 08:23 PM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
Good grief what a bunch of unethical slobs. Thats the best I can say for them.

elkaddict 02-22-2004 09:08 PM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
Because of some abuse, Idaho banned rifles that weigh more than 16 lbs. Seems some guys were using their range finders and .50 BMG rounds to take elk at long range. Sounds like enertaining shooting--but hard on the wounded animals that are not hit in just the right place. Wouldn't some 800 yd plus silloette shooting be about has fun? Come west boys and try some of that long range shooting at praire dogs during a Wyoming wind!

Red Hawk 02-22-2004 09:36 PM

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 
Really skilled or not, i wouldn't try to make those real long long range shots like that. I got to shoot an .50 Barrett one time at targets about 1000M but it was a paper target.


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