RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

O.K. So your saying because they love the challenge of long range shooting their "slob hunters"?

Typical! IMO , it's hunters with attitudes like yours that will do the most damage to hunting!

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

If these snipers took up bow hunting, they would probably setup about 100 yards off the trails.
I would bet that their shooting ranges don't have mountains with swirling winds. They talk about all the variables. It sounds like every kill would be a luck shot.
Maybe they could use a 50 cal. machine gun with tracer rounds. They could mount it in the truck bed.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I still find it hilarious when I think of the number of people who came down on me like a ton of bricks when I said long range killing of a deer depends more on shooting skill then hunting skill.

Hell, I even made up far fetched examples like "what would you say if someone was shooting at 1,000 yards??.......how about 1 mile??"

Now when a REAL story comes out saying that exact thing..........everyone is coming out of the woodwork to blast these guys as slobs, not hunters, bad image etc.

Talk about a complete 180 guys..........give me a break!!! It is now very clear that what some people pass off as a noble defense of hunting in general is really just a smoke screen and the truth is they are just defending the way THEY like to hunt.


:([:@][:'(]

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I have not even comtemplated attempting it as I don't have the time to practice or probably the skill to complete such a feat. I will reserve judgement based on those considerations.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

A friend of mine hunts this way and took an 8 pointer 2 years ago. Well actually someone wounded it at 600-700 yards and when he arrived at the deer at least an hour later and had to finish it off. He got the deer mounted and he catches $#!& for it every time I see it. Personally I have to agree with everyone else. If you can't drag your a$$ up that mountain like everyone else then stay at camp.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I agree with Jorgey, I stick up for everything that is legal but I can not stick up for this. I think it is irresponsible and down right wrong!!

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I cannot justify a defense for any form of "hunting" that would have a "hunter" take 50 shots at an animal.

I wouldn't care if they sat in their truck beds and shot at 2,000 yds. As long as they were capable of atleast having a reasonable chance for a kill.

I don't think anyone would defend a guy who never having shot a bow in his life, climbs a tree and tries to stick a deer. But I would bet you even he would hit one before taking 50 shots...LOL

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Quote[O.K.So your saying because they love the challenge of long range shooting they're "slob hunters"?] I wouldn't say it was because they love long range shooting but because of how many shots it takes them to hit one. If someone was shooting at 50 yards and took that many shots I would call them slobs. What these guys are doing is long range target practice at live animals and if they try to say that they don't wound a lot of animals then they are liars. You don't miss that often without making some bad hits

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Then I guess your calling alot of hunters slobs. Wether it's lack of practice , adrenaline rush , buck fever , etc. , an awfull lot of hunters miss deer or worse wound deer at ranges closer than that every year.

Where does "50 shots" come from? The article I read said "10 shots at the same deer in a 30 minute time span"

I agree with atlasman here. I was one who didn't agree with him 100% (with not calling it hunting , but yes it is deffinately shooting skill) in his thread and as I recall alot of you were all over him then.
Whats up?

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Bowfanatic towards the end of the article there is a paragraph that says:
"We shot 50 shots one day at a buck and as far as I know that sucker's still out there," John says.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

O.K. sorry , missed that. But a key word in that sentence could be "we". Three maybe four guys shot 50 shots at a buck one day , the same buck. That tells me that at that range the buck is unalarmed at the rifle shots heard 600 - 1000 yards away. Alot of variables were probably involved. Nowhere in the article does it say that they wounded any deer and just kept on hunting. I would guess with the high tech optics they could tell if they ever wounded one. If they did wound one and made no effort to retrieve it , then I'd call them "slob hunters"!

We have a group of hunters that own land next to ours that sound like Iwo Jima on opening day. I dont consider them "slob hunters" because they do alot of shooting and dont get many deer.

It seems to me that too many folks are quick to label someone "slob hunters" because it's not the way they prefer to do it. Especially without knowing the whole story!

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I hereby declare this thread to be named "Trigger".

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

OKAY I'LL Jump in here - Camp story - Outfitter (ex-guide) told me the one about his year here in Wyoming. Spent a week with two guys - neither one could hit the inside of barn with a shotgun even if the doors were closed. Each of them were put on good bucks and on several occaisions. Here's the kicker they both went home after each used up two full boxes of ammo with tag soup in a tupperware bowl. Made my friend wonder why he does this stuff. He quit guiding and enjoys DIY.

I wonder if them long rangers wear cammo?

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Slobs

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Sorry but anytime you put your finger on the trigger to attempt a shot at a deer that you are only able to make 1 out of 10 or 1 out of 50 times you are being reckless and showing a blatant disregard for hunting ethics. The distance itself is not the issue. The distance at which a man can consistently hit the kill zone on an animal may vary greatly from person to person but EVERYONE should know their own range and stay within it. If these SLOBS are capable of being off enough to cleanly miss 10 or more times at this distance then they are clearly attempting shots beyond their ethical range and are certainly going to also miss just enough to wound and maim animals as well. And probably more often than they would like to admit. Lord knows how many deer they maim each year.

Its one thing to stick together as hunters but God help us if we censure ourselves to the point that we are scared to call a spade a spade. If this story is inaccurate well thats one thing and if you have evidence of that then show it, but the actions described in this story are just wrong and nobody short of God or Jesus will brow beat me into thinking differently. Want to see if you can hit something 1100 yards away? Go to a shooting range. But when it comes to game animals "KNOW" you can make the shot or don't attempt it at all.

I don't recall the article mentioning beer but other than that, yes thats exactly what they are.

No there are plenty of people who love the challenge of long range shooting that are the best and brightest among us. 99 percent of them however make a clear distinction between extreme long range "TARGET SHOOTING" and "HUNTING". Its one thing to see "IF" you can hit a silhouette target from 1000 yards away and another thing entirely to see "IF" you can hit a real deer 1000 yards away. It doesn't matter if you hit a silhouette target in the a$$, leg or blow the tip of its nose off. The animals we hunt however deserve a little more respect than that.

No its jackasses like the trigger happy, gung ho, so what if we him'em in the a$$, yahoo slobs in that article that hurt the image of hunters nationwide. Look at the overwhelmingly negative reaction that we hunters have had to this article. Now imagine what a neutral person would think of those guys? And you want me to stick up for them? To defend them to all the neutral people and non hunters out there? Sorry but those guys are not representative of me or my values. In fact if they were to set up shop near me their aim would probably be even more adversely affected by my foot hanging out of their a$$.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

So then , any person who can shoot the snot out of targets at the range and knows they CAN hit what their aiming at but for whatever reason cant hit a live animal but continue to try , is a "slob hunter"?
Read the article again! These guys shoot competition. Do they get the same adrenaline rush that I get while bowhunting when shooting at those long distances?
I'd bet that the majority of hunters who take numerous shots at deer but either miss or wound know their limitations of capability before they go afield. But according to you these folks are "slob hunters" , which by the way would include alot of young folks or novice hunters.
Some of ya'll need to think a little before jumping on the band wagon so quick!

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

The fact that they are not novices yet still miss deer this much should tell you something about the range they are firing from. ITS TOO D@MN FAR AWAY! I could be a little more forgiving of a youthful novice that just didn't know any better but these guys should know better. The examples you listed are also not applicable here and you know it. You are just being intentionally obtuse. Sheesh, if this isn't unethical behavior in your book then what is?

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

In my response I want to stay away from the issue of whether or not this is hunting. As others have noted, it's not fair to the discussion, or hunting in general. And perhaps it really isn't the point.

From reading the article it sounds as if these folks are serious about long range shooting. No doubt they've made a significant dollar investment in their equipment and spend a great deal of time working up loads and perfecting their skills at the range.

What is disturbing is that it sure sounds like their primary motivation for getting out there during deer season is to nail a target that bleeds. I would suggest that out of respect to the game that anyone who can take a dozen shots at an animal and not make a clean kill should re-invest their energies is a different hobby. That would be regardless of whether you were shooting from 50, 500, or 1,000 yards.

Again, I want to stay away from the "this isn't hunting" argument. But it seems as if they get their pleasure from being able to kill something from a great distance instead of from getting into the woods, getting back to nature, putting meat in the freezer, etc.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Thank you! Well said. These guys only interest in deer seem to be using them as a target. If they want targets then they should go buy some. Your primary motivation for shooting a wild animal should never be (IMHO) just to see if you could hit it.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Maybe this thread should be called Seabiscuit.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I'm slow on the uptake here. What is IMHO?

The guys are unethical in my estimation. Kinda like hearing about a fatal car crah and driving down to see it.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Your missing my point Todd.

The range has nothing to do with it. They practice at those ranges , win competition at those ranges , and yet still miss deer. You said When this same thing happens (taking numerous shots at deer and missing) to other hunters inside 50 yards , are they "slob hunters?

cardboardkiller

Do you have an opinion on this? We get the trigger joke already!;)

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

"Long range hunting a small but growing passion" Damn! and i was just getting good at the spot and stalk method.

EDIT POINT: IT'S TOO DAMN FAR!!! For an accomplished shooter and too damn far for a slob.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I already posted my opinion earlier in this thread on the first page.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Read it agree with it still.

EDIT POINT: Aren't them weapons for sniping? 72 lbs has got to be one of a kind hand made jobs.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

If you are constantly missing a standing deer 10 or more times in a row at 50 yards with a gun then you definately need to do something. Check your gun, check your sights, get thee to a range or a gravel pit and practice, practice, practice. And don't come back till you can at least hit a deers vitals at 50 yards. Thats not a great feat of marksmanship folks. 7 year old kids can do it. If you don't have at least a reasonable certainty of making a shot then you should not attempt it. So yes, anyone that consistently continues to fire at ranges beyond that which he can consistently hit his mark or is so inept or unskilled that he cannot hit a deer at even point blank range he is indeed a slob hunter. Doesn't matter if its 50 yards or 1000.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

WOW! I'm at a loss for words.[&:]

I guess my definition of a "slob hunter" is different than yours. By your definition there are more "slob hunters" than there are skilled hunters like those that have the passion as we here do.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

We shot 50 shots one day at a buck and as far as I know that sucker's still out there,'' John says.

Wonder how many trees were harvested that day.:D

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

We use to shoot 155 mm's at ranges of 15 or better miles and used the battery adjust - fire for effect method. Maybe if they lined up all these nuts and let them pop off 3 or so rounds as fast as they can they would have meat at the end of the shooting (I still don't call it hunting). It may be helpful if they would let one of the group crawl over to the mountain and work as a forward observer and help them zero in on the target. If he dressed in brown he could probably get real close................

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Okay, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth but am I to infer from this statement that you do not feel a person should train themselves the least little bit with the weapon they intent to hunt with. And stay within the boundaries of their particular skill level. Heck, just buy your first gun or bow and head straight to the woods. No need to see how well I can shoot it. I'll just let fly and see what happens. Whats that, a deer 500 yards away. Well I've never even practiced a shot farther than a 100 and have no idea how much my bullet drops at that range but ah hell lets let her rip cause wouldn't it be really cool if I hit him? Besides I'm out here all alone I'll never tell anyone if I blow his back leg off or something. Or hey I've shot many times at 1000 yards and I can only hit a deer sized target 1 out of 25 times but ahhh screw it I'm still taking the shot because its just a deer. So what if I maim it.

Anyone who falls into those catagories is indeed a slob hunter to me.

Well thank God this is not the case where I hunt. Although there are still too many of these types in the woods here as well. Trigger happy and quick to spray and pray. The only public land I even dare step foot on during deer season is some Army Corp of Engineers land that is bowhunt only. Forget hunter orange I wouldn't walk across one of the WMA's here during gun season even if I had a flashing pink neon sign strapped to my back. Heck three years ago a guy got killed riding down a logging road on a 4 wheeler. A buddy of mine was shot (but thankfully not killed) while he was climbing down a tree. So yeah I'm a little hard on the guys who get out there and goon it up. I think we should demand more out of people. Not make excuses for them and expect less.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

The meaning of slob hunter to me would be any man or woman who would go beyond their limitations for a shot at an animal without any concious for the animals well being. I don't knock people who can kill game proficiently up to 500yds. Those people practice enough to do it all the time. And these people know under what circumstances to take these shots wind, angle, and weather. 700 to 1000 yds is really losing alot of bullet energy it has to be shot perfect. Theirs only a handful of those men in the whole world. Everyone else has just gotten lucky. A 1000yd shot hmmmmm lets see. A 270 with a fast 130gr bullet drops about 277 inches, thats roughly 23ft of hold over. Now tell me what hunter has those kind of optics on their rifle that can show a hold over of 23ft. Even a fast 300 win mag load is going to drop 21ft at 1000yds with about 500lbs of energy. Now were in the energy level of pistol shooting. And most of us that have ever hunted with a pistol know you have to put it where it belongs.

Yeah maybe not calling them slobs is more along the line of being polictically correct but I'd call them foolish for lack of knowledge and disreguard of animal life.

I shot a whitetail at 535 yds once and I missed in my reasoning. I held for the lung shot and the bullet struck just infront of the shoulder and broke his neck. Even though the bullet hit just infront of the shoulder it was what I call a miss. I was lucky not to have wounded the animal. And I practice out to 575yds all year long. At that distance in most hunting circumstances its going to real tough to make a perfect shot. And for the average hunter they should stay under the 300yd mark.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

What you said there makes perfectly good sense!
But it's not related to the article in this post or the scenarios I provided you which would label someone a "slob hunter" by your definition. You said : The article clearly states how they practice and compete long range shooting regularly.
My scenarios were the same! A hunter that has his/her weapon of choice sighted in perfectly at the range but falls apart when shooting at live game within their yardage limitations and misses (or worse) but continue shooting , by your definition are "slob hunters". Buck fever , adrenaline rush , whatever you wish to call it has dramatic effects on some people.
Now do you see my point?

Nowhere did I say that someone who steps in the woods without knowing their limitations and recklessly sprays bullets in hope of getting something is NOT a slob hunter!

Maybe someone should start a thread on the definition of a "slob hunter".

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

But Bow....isn't that what the Hail Mary club is doing??

In that article they took 60 shots and had one kill.[:o]

It said he strives for a first shot kill:eek::eek:....But it aint happening.

They have spotters watch the bullet flight and watch where it hits the ground so the shooter can "adjust for the next spot"

I see no indication in that article that any of these shooters "expect" the first shot to be a kill. They miss, then adjust, miss then adjust. They have just a good of a chance as hitting that deer in the rear hoof as they do the lungs.................AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!!

These guys don't have a chance to boiler room a deer at 1000 yds on the first shot. The whole thing is just crazy to me..........Target shooting stuff that bleeds when hit[:'(]

Sorry but IMO they are an absolute 100% disgrace and black eye to hunters like you and me and everyone else that gives a rats ass about the sport they love.

And frankly I am very surprised you are defending them.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Exactly!!! Well said!!

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Really?



Taken out of context a little RA?

Like I said before , millions of hunters shoot wildly at deer under 100 yds and miss repeatedly every year , but can shoot great at the range. Slob hunters?

Thought I'd put that here again because of the arguement I've heard about them throwing lead with no respect for the animal!

For those that label them "lazy"!

Sounds to me like this fellow bowhunter is just trying to make gun hunting more challenging.

Slob hunters? By my definition , NO WAY!

I'm still waiting for a reply to my last post which was both a counter to your twisting things around that I've said , and also a question asking if you see the point I'm trying to make about your definition of a slob hunter.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Bow if you can read that article and find nothing in it that disturbs you then I seriously doubt I am going to be able to say anything to convince you. That doesn't mean you are right. It could just mean you are stubborn as hell.;) Suffice it to say I think you are backing a losing horse to defend these suckers.

As for a definition of a "Slob Hunter". Well slob is derived from the word sloven for which one text book definition is: \Slov"en\, n. [D. slaf careless, negligent.
For me its someone that doesn't give a d@#*. Someone who is reckless, careless and negligent. What they don't dive a d@#$ about may vary. It could be safety related, ethics related or the fact that they can't hit a barn door at 50 yards yet do nothing to attempt to improve that situation. It could be people who often take shots at ranges that they have never practiced from. Or as described in that article it could just be people who take shots from ranges that are just too far period regardless of skill level. A man that continously shoots at a deer from a range that often takes him 20 or more shots to score a hit doesn't give a d@#* about the animals he is hunting. Doesn't care if wounds them and loses them; doesn't care if he blows a hole through and ruins both back hams; doesn't care if he condemns the animal to a slow horrible death from infection or even starvation depending on the nature of the injury. To me that labels him SLOB.

Rack also made a great point about the kind of energy a bullet has left at such ranges. The less energy a bullet has the more crucial shot placement becomes. Yet at those extreme ranges precise shot placement is a virtual impossibility. CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROBLEMATIC TRUTH OF THAT PARADOX?

Another reckless aspect of what these guys are doing is the fact that at those ranges even with a spotter and some of the best optics on earth there is no way to always know you missed. A gut shot deer isn't going to cut a back flip especially when hit with a bullet that has nearly exhausted all its energy. Heck I've shot deer at 40 yards with a 30-06 that didn't act like they were hit at all. Only walking over to where they were standing and seeing the blood revealed the truth. Do these guys send a runner over to check after every deer they shoot at? I seriously doubt it.

Bottem line, these guys aren't hunting they are playing a game. A game with live targets that bleed.

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Yes I am calling any hunter that doesn't put in the time to be able to accurately shoot their weapon slob hunters and I make no apologies for saying it. Anyone who needs a spotter to watch and see where he misses so he can adjust his shot has no buisiness shooting at live animals period! You can defend them all you want but from the responces you can tell very few people agree with you.

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

I hear an envirowacko group is sueing to list and protect the "White Tailed Prairie Dog".

RE: Talk about long-range shooting...read this
 

Exactly why this article should be read carefully and not with Evelyn Woods sped redin course!;)

Whoever made the reference to the ballistics of these gentlemens weapons of choice better go back and read it again and then check some ballistic charts!

Just got done shooting an awesome round of 3d! Life is great! Have a good one gentlemen.