Defining fair chase....
 

The high fenced post was up to 4 pages so I wanted to voice my opinion here. I posted a similiar question about a year ago.

I feel that anyone should have a chance at taking an animal to be considered fair chase. If a deer chooses to high tail it 50 miles from its home range than it is a deer that able to be taken by many hunters. If it is fenced in it is only able to be taken by those who own or pay to hunt on the enclosed land.

I will only pay for videos who claim to hunt fair chase. Drury brothers made it a point to state that on there video covers. If I found out they were lying I would no longer buy there videos.

There is a reason for Boone and Crockett having rules on this........

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Yes there is a reason B&C has issues on this and it is that there are alot of people who dont want to hunt high fences and feel like the people behind fences have a better chance of growing world record deer which they can manage and therefore these deer dont make B&C or P&Y record books. What i dont think people understand is how many families put bread on the table for there kids and family to eat due to owning these places. The sport of hunting has changed, it is alot mor business oriented than ever sad but true. If any of you would ever go to a large fenced in ranch and spent a week not hunting with a gun put a camera and let these people who do it for a living explain there reason i think alot of you would understand its not what you think.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

trophyhuntr my objection to them is strictly personal, I have no problem with any one high fencing their deer or paying to hunt high fences, the only time I have a problem with this is when a high fence proclaims themselves to be a "Great White Hunter" because they killed a 200 class buck inside a fence when in reality they couldn't hunt their way out of a brown paper bag on an unguided non-fenced hunt. If someone kills a monster behind a fence that is great and I have no problem with them bragging as long as they say it was a fenced hunt.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Trophy are you for it because it makes money for those who own the land?

Or are you stating those who go to hunt to provide for families?

I am sure it is not the second one your mentioning.

It makes a lot of money for those who own the land and I will not say that is a bad thing but.........

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Ill say this look at all the hunting shows, how many of those hunts are at fenced in ranches, alot but who want s to watch someone shoot a spike or doe or 4pt people watch these shows to see big deer get killed. I agree most of these guys you see on TV cant hunt worth a crap, i would love for them to come to where i hunt and kill a 150 and up, wont happen, but I am not gonna knock them for it,

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

PS who named Jackie Bushman the Buckmaster i didnt, I saw a TV show years ago about and with Milo Hanson and next to his name it said professional hunter , why did it say that because he killed the WR typical give me a break, the names some people give themselves is a joke

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

I'm against it not only for the people that claim they are "THE GREAT WHITE HUNTER" but the other aspect you mentioned sucks as well. People that are doing it to put food on their plates. People who have made it a business? In my mind this is I don't like it most of all. They took something that has been around since the begining of time and commercialized it. They tainted the sport in general by putting up fences and making it a business. Is nothing sacred anymore. Is anything safe from the allmighty dollar?? You can make the argument about the $$ we spend on scents, clothing, etc........... and I can even agree with that to a point. But nothing is comparable to fencing in animals to be hunted. It's gone too far. What the heck will it be like for my kids 30 years from now?? Hover crafts with gps locator systems?? To be honest with you I have NO idea how it is even allowed/

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Nybowhunter,

Everyone has there opinion i dont know what will happen to this sport in 30 years, amazing isnt it, look at the people who own huge amount of land should they be able to do with it what they want, it is America, times change whether for the good or bad i dont know, but no there isnt much the almighty $$ doesnt affect and hunting is no different

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

acccckkkkkkkkkkkkk!! I know

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Here's a little twist to that. A guy I know pretty well goes to Alberta every year and guides up there. He say's to me "you wouldn't believe how many bucks I've shot for people". If a buck is out of their range they would have him shoot it and tell the boys back home how he killed Mongo.

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[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

I didn't see it, but one of my hunting buddies told me a few weeks ago on theTexas Parks and Wildlife TV Show they were interviewing convicted professional poachers. One of the poachers claimed to have poached four deer for different "clients" that were in the B&C Book.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Man what a life, get payed to take people hunting and tipped and shoot the deer for them, GOTTA LOVE IT

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

aaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Trophy it is hard to tell if someone is joking around through typed messages but I hope you were on your last statement.

Your signiture is Good hunting isn't it?

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

the argument for what exactly fair chase will continue on for centuries to come. it's all based on oppinion. for instance i feel that rounding up wild stallions to be used as rodeo horses by using a helicopter is wrong. at the same time, i believe that putting on line drives in the woods to drive deer to sitting hunters is fine. the indians used to chase buffalo over mountains, plunging to their deaths. i feel on the high fence areas, you have to take into consideration of what the land owner is actually trying to accomplish by putting thousands maybe millions into their property and deer herds. i also think that these estblishments would be closely whatched by local maybe even federal humane society personel to ensure that the animals have the proper habitat and food supply and to make sure that the herd is in good health. this would cost a bundle...... after all, these types of things take permits and liscenses. i'm also pretty sure that to keep a herd healthy and strong, they do allow younger bucks to be harvested. i actually heard of one around here that if you take an 8-point or lower, you pay a penalty, but you are allowed. none the less, i can appreciate the hard work and huge expense that it would take to accomplish such a goal.......... with that being said i think that as long as the deer are totally wild and aren't shot while they're eating off the keepers tailgate, let them be counted.....anything other than that it would be as fake as pro wrestling

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

This is a debate that is only personal in nature....personal to the hunters that hunt each area and personal to the people that the stories are told to. As long as an animal is taken in any legal fashion, I'm all for it. It's the people that take animals illegally that make me mad.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

If the fenced operation is stocked only with farm raised deer , inspected by the F&W or BOAH , then I have nothing to say about them . But if they "pen" in deer that rightfully belong to the state and it's citizens they should either be banned , or allow public access for free .

That line about the landowner's rights doesn't wash if they are confining deer that belong to everyone . Personally , I will NEVER go to one of those places .

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

My opinion of high fenced ranches and fair chase have changed a lots in the last few weeks.
I am still in support of all legal methods of hunting. There is still a place in my view for "package hunts." As I've said before, some of these ranches are very large, and this is really a business, more than it is a sport.
I do not support any type of hunting animals in any type of small "pen!"
However, to truely call this type of activity "hunting" is a slap in the face to any other legal means of fair chase hunting!
Last week our local newspapers outdoors section devoted about a half of a page to a "great hunter" who had taken two huge bucks this year. One was a 15 point taken on a 8,000 acre ranch and the other was a 16 point taken on another 45,000 acre ranch!
My gripe was more with the sports writer than with the "hunter!" This was not this writers first stupid story either! I don't consider him to be any type of "journalist" or "outdoor expert" when it comes to hunting, or fishing either, for that matter!
Anyway, the writer devotes the outdoor section to this great "hunter" and went on to say that these were "two great Boone and Crockett deer!" Any idiot should know that any deer killed within a high fence, are not accepted into the B&C books!
I guess I am just in the midst of changing my opinion of what hunting really is.
I still don't mind people who can afford this type of activity, doing it!
Just don't try to pass off "bought" deer, with the skills it takes to scout an area, build stands, and truely "hunt" the game!
Whatever legal method that you use, wether it is stalking, stand hunting, or driving, takes varying degrees of skill, not to mention physical effort, in scouting, setting up, and hunting! To me, these are more a part of the hunt than the actual kill! These are all part of "the hunting experience!"
Even if I could afford it, I have no desire to hunt stands that were scouted and placed for me! If that is what floats your boat, fine! Just don't try to flaunt that huge protein-fed buck off in front of hunters who work hard for whatever deer we get, be it a "trophy" 6 pointer, doe, or true B&C buck!

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

I think this whole issue is indicative of our changing society. Slowly but surely, we are losing rural hunters who grew up chasing squirrels and rabbits and hunting for the pure enjoyment of it. Hunting is now a big business, like it or not. Personally, I don't. It's becoming more and more of a competition. If you don't kill a big one, you "failed".
Many people want to kill the bucks they see on TV, but they haven't taken the time to learn how to do it. They haven't spent hundreds of hours over the years scouting, reading, and learning through trial and error. Mistakes....that's how you learn. So, they pay all this money to go be a shooter. Face it, that's all they are. They have not scouted the land, patterned a buck, or learned how to do it on their own in many cases. A guide puts them over a food-plot or a powerline and tells them which deer to shoot. What have they done other than pay money and pull a trigger? To me that is awfully hollow. If that is what someone wants to do, fine...but I have no desire to do that, nor will I respect their ability as a hunter when they are later telling me about all the big bucks they've killed at XYZ ranch.

Now if someone consistently takes a buck representative of the upper-echelon in their area...that is a hunter AND a deer to respect. I just don't get the "have to" to kill a big buck. Again, it's personal, but I'd rather truly hunt and kill a 120 class here in Ga. than to pay a few thousand to go to Texas or wherever and shoot a 170 class I didn't earn. :)

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Charlie P that is not only outrageous it is illegal! Having worked in the outfitting business for many years I can tell you no matter how big a tip I wouldn't do this. They pay big bucks to hunt the frozen land for a trophy buck, I wouldn't be doing my job by robbing them of the enjoyment/pleasure of harvesting their DEER. I am not saying your friend is wrong persay but I would question his ethics and morals(I would also have a few question for the outfitter in which he works for). If you come to hunt you better be able to make it happen, you also better not expect to be going home with a hawg...it ain't true they are tied up behind every tree...it takes dedication, hardwork, excution and good old fashion luck. Again just my opinion!

Fair chase is really in the mind of the hunter. To me I think it is hunting a animal in his own turf with no boundries & no assurances that you'll even see a deer much less harvest the deer. I have tried the fence gig on occasion for boar, buffalo and it was just a kill/meat for the table. We don't have the operation you all have down their, the ones up here that cater to the same clients is pick your animal, pay the price and shoot your prize...to me that isn't really fair chase or how I would define hunting in my world. But I don't fault those who make a living or even those who choose to hunt this way. I will never say it is the same but in the same breath will never say it is wrong. I value the experiences, enjoyment and memories I get out of hunting. The harvest is a reward to the effort and certainly not a given, thus my opinion and choice.

Everybody is different, as long as they are happy then all the power to them.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Fair Chase

hunting an animal that cant outrun me when i chase it in my tenny pumps, i prefer nike, kidding LOL, a debate that cant be won by either side just talked about

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Trophy,
Can't you see how wrong you are? Nikes may work fine behind a high fence, but TRUE hunters only chase them in Adidas!! Now that, and ONLY that is fair chase!!! An adidas hunter is to be respected!;)

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but i wear nike, why you ask, cause I'M TIGER WOODS

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Nicely Put, my views exactly. Could not have said it better myself.

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

Fair chase is not hunting on private land.

"From a disgruntled public land hunter"....:D

RE: Defining fair chase....
 

I also have given this much thought, my opinion has changed and I'm sure it will in the future.

First, the hundreds of thousands of acres behind the fence on large ranches, like the King Ranch, are truely fair chase. Anyone from B&C or P&Y that hunted there and were truthfull to themselve would admit it. Second, my neighbor 'hunts' on a 3500 acre hi fence ranch. None of the deer were pin raised. All were wild when fenced. The biologest said they have to take in the neighborhood of 40 bucks and 80 does each year. The land is so overpopulated the ranch has slaughter permits. No deer taging is required. No one that I know of considers that anything else than harvesting cattle. Thirdly, somewhere between this 3500 acre farm and the +100,000 acre ranches, it becomes fair chase. Lastly, B&C and P&Y should not be responsible for drawing this line. They should call everything behind a hi fence non-fair chase.

I will likely never kill a deer eligable for the book. It therefore becomes what I think of as fair chase. No one elses opnion really matters. What my memories recall it as is all that is important. If I was behind a fence and thought the animals 'stood fair chance' I would likely recall it as an enjoyable hunt. If it felt like a canned hunt, it would be remimber with a bitter taste in my mouth. No book involved.