RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

well said skeeter and i agree, somehow this got way out of hand

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Oh, you a baaaaad man [:o] - zeke [rotflmao]

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Oh ok handles i get it no big deal especially about the cousin comment, but you played a hell of a roll in deliverence. Squeeling like a pig

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Tell me, how do you hit the jaw when aiming for the base of the neck at this distance?? If your shooting is that bad you have no business pulling the trigger without dialing your groups in BEFORE going on the hunt!!!!

Most of my hunting is spot and stalk so I can pick the range I want to shoot at.It all depends on the animals activity, calm or nervous. When I' m at my " range" I study the animal for a few minutes first, after a little while I can begin to read the deers attitude, if it' s calm it' ll get one in the neck, if it' s jumpy it' ll get one in the lungs.Who suggested taking a running neck shot at a deer??No one, anyone who would is an idiot.As for being a low percentage shot,I' ve taken almost a dozen deer who' ll argue or should I say, can' t argue that point.It' s all about personal capabilities, if you can' t do it then don' t try it

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In reference to neck and head shots, not shoulder shots;)

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Plainsman I will not argue ability/confidence is the key, it will allow/help in excuting the shot in the moment. Obviously you pay close attention and try to read the animal before making a desicion on the shot to take, which shows your patience and ability. You must realize not all or should I say very few hunters do such a thing, keeping that in mind the vitals on an average deer are 6-8" and the neck shot is about 1-2" . Given this data wouldn' t you agree the lower % shot is the neck, especially given the vitals are open and clear??? We can only make desicions based on our experience and the circumstances that surround the opportunity, however when someone ask my opinions of a neck shot over a vitals, to me the answer is clear especially given the fact I know nothing about that persons ability. I know personally I can make a neck shot 99% of the time given the right circumstances but the 1% miss is what bothers me, given that my opinion is aim for the vitals, drive it home and collect your deer.

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Skeeter, I agree with your reasoning. I' d never suggest a rookie take the shots I do, it takes years of experience.However, the first two words in the original post were" you have" , meaning " I do" .I was just stating what I would do, trophyhuntr then echoed my response and got jumped on for it. Just because others don' t have the ability to make these shots, don' t get mad at those of us that do!!

whether your a rookie or seasoned hunter, only shoot WITHIN you ability, the time to strech your skill is at the range, not in the field.

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I' m definatly a double lung guy. A deer is not going far with 2 flat lungs. The first deer I ever shot I hit it in the shoulders. It died but it sure ruined alot of meat. Since that day I have always opted for the lung shot. The furthest I' ve ever tracked a deer is under 50 yards.

On the other sub topic of neck shots, while I have never used one other than a finish off shot, I have seen them effectivly used many many times. I have never seen a deer walk away neck shot.

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Plainsman " Trophyhuntr" got as you said " jumped on" because of his comments not because of echoing your reply.

I replyed " If someone is such a bad shot they worry about hitting guts on a heart lung shot how in the world are they going to hit a deers neck?"

As I said before if you have to worry about hitting guts on a vitals shot you have no buisness in the world to take a neck shot because it is a low percentage shot. Then right after he is done worrying about making a gut shot he goes on to tell us he can hit a quater at 200 yards and hit a 1 inch target at 75 yards which are both load of BS. I see right through it. One minute you are worrying about gut shots then you are a sharpshooter.

To clairfy, I never said it is wrong to take a neck shot and one should be cautious in taking such a low %age shot. It just isn' t my style is all.

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I' ve only shot one deer in the neck. Dropped him in his tracks and he was dead as a hammer.

Normally I aim for the shoulder.

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i would have to go with heart and double lung, if it is broadside, if not then i go for the center of the chest

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Last I knew the shoulder blade isn' t a vital organ. Double lung and it' s impossible for them to live. What' s the deal??? Shoot them so you don' t have to walk far?? I think that' s pathetic. Poor hunter has to walk and drag a little bit after taking a deers' life. Brush up on your tracking skills and go for a vital organ. Boy society is lazy nowadays. If you' re shooting a neck shot and miss 5 inches high or low what happens? You don' t think a deer can live hit low in the neck? If you shoot 5 inches high or low shooting for double lung what happens? You more than likely still hit the vitals. Just this bowhunters opinion.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

This seems to come up alot and the thing that I can never understand is why anyone would take a neck shot.
We owe it to the deer we hunt to take the highest percentage shot possible. The lung area of a deer is the largest kill zone on a deer so why would you aim anywhere else.

As far as messing up the meat... the front shoulders do not have near the meat on them that the neck has........... I would not mess up the roast I get out of the neck for anything.

So I guess those of you that want to shoot at a smaller kill zone with less room for error and mess up some of the best cuts of a deer just keep shooting the neck...
I will stay with the highest percentage shot possible. I owe the deer that much!

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Something I don' t think has been said is that everyone seems to assume that a shoulder shot will drop them in their tracks.

First off: That' s not a safe assumption. Deer do run away when shot in the shoulder.
Second: Several posters have assumed that if you hit one shoulder you will hit them both. Also not always true. Bone deflect bullets.
Third: A shoulder shot doesn' t bleed as well as a shot behind the shoulders, so if it does run, it may be more difficult to find.

Lastly: Neck Shots. About the only thing that moves alot on a deer is the head/neck.
The shot isn' t low percentage just because it' s smaller, it' s because it moves.

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Give me a break ! I know your one of those guys that shoots a 300-07mm whatever magnum right? LOL Man it dont take much to kill a whitail, large or small. People do it all the time with just an arrow. But nooo, you say you need a magnum. I' ve shot all calibers of rifles and the .243 is on of the best drop' em in there tracks deer rifle. You have heard of shock value correct ? This is what kills instantly not energy ft/lbs. Energy is an equation, doesnt show the actuall damage ofa bullet on impact. You do know about about sectional density correct ?
The .243 is right up there with .30 calibers in that department. Please dont go spewing off things you dont know about. The .243 is one of the best calibers available and with the right load will make your 7 mag look silly. ha Ha LOL.

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Just in defense of southern hunters, I have hunted in the south for over 40 years and have yet to run into a hunter who felt a neck shot was a high percentage shot or one that should be taken when the vitals are exposed. I am not saying a skilled marksman who knows the anatomy of a deer inside out should never take one, but in comparison to a vitals shot the margin for error is very small.

Another thing I am trying to figure out is why in the world would you neck shoot a deer to " save meat" ? Please tell me how much meat is lost on a double lung shot versus a neck shot? I have neck shot one deer and lost at least 5 pounds of good neck roast dut to it.

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I know a lot of you have probably hunted a whole lot longer then I have (about 15yrs) so I usually don' t have much to say on these types of post. I do have a question though. I was always taught by my uncle, who I would argue with anyone is experienced at hunting as they come, to aim for a double lung or heart shot. In Indiana we can not use high powered rifles, so I use a 12-gauge 5500 Mossberg with 3" slugs. I was taught to aim right behind the shoulder and slightly above it for a good kill shot. My question is why would anyone want to shoot a deer in the shoulder? I shot a nice buck in the shoulder last year by accident from about 50yds away and it knocked him a ton. He still ran and didn' t leave much of a blood trail and after three hours of tracking, we never found him. A shoulder shot doesn' t leave much of a blood trail and if you do not hit the other shoulder you probably will not drop it right there. Give me a heart or lung shot any day.

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buckeyebuckhntr you are a fool, you going to tell me you cant hit a 1 inch group at 75 yards with a high power rifle and scope GET OUT OF THE WOODS, dont sit here and try to tell me what i can hit and cant hit with a rifle. I have seen tons of deer hit where people shot a deer broadside and hit them in the guts, i wasnt talking about me. Plainsman and i have our opinions on neck shooting just because you dont like it or cant do it dont knock us who can for doing it. Dont ever tell me i am full of b/s on shooting a group at 75 or 200 yards, when you competition shoot, so dont knock me when you dont know me

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They' ll shoot them in the shoulder in the hopes that it will cripple them so they can remain seated in the treestand to finish them off (probably in the neck). See this way you don' t have to walk that dreaded extra 75 yards to recover him. I don' t get it myself. I also don' t understand the misterious loss of meat with a lung shot vs. the lack of a neck shot. I don' t know about you but the roasts that come from the neck are pretty darn good. I' m not here to knock anyones shooting ability or choices on where they want to kill the deer. To me I just don' t see the logic.

That is a very true statement. Run off and with little blood.

Also very true. I hit one 4 years ago in the shoulder(missed a little). and it went through and exited back about 14 inches on the other side. The deer was broadside and not quartering in either.

but hey whatever floats your boat. I would just like to encourage lung/heart shots to everyone.

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Trophyhuntr, First of all I am not going to sit here and call you names. So congrats you won the name calling game. Secondly you are the one spewing BS that you can hit a quater at 200 yards. Which I don' t care how much you argue or say other wise YOU cannot hit a quater off hand at 200 yards. I said nothing about 1 inch groups at a target at 75 yards that is much different. I said to hit a living breathing moving deer not to mention a mature animal on a 1 inch spot is easier said than done. Once again I dont care how good you shoot off of a bench and sand bags, that dosen' t mean squat.

I cannot use a rifle here in Ohio and I am glad because we don' t have people flinging lead 200 plus yards at deer. I am a BOW HUNTER 100% that goes out for slug season and sometimes I even take my bow during gun season to be with my friends and family. I save a doe tag for gun season every year. Remember a hunter is only as good as his or her ethics I believe in that and live by it. I won' t take neck shots, I dont hunt over bait or feeders either. Again I am not saying it is wrong to do any of these things they just aren' t for me. As for a skilled marksman to shoot that far it is exceptable but for the " general" hunter it is wrong to do so.

I may not be the most experienced hunter in the woods I started hunting in 1998 when i was 18 years old. I have taken 11 shots at deer and sucessfully recovered 10, the other one was a miss with my bow 3 years ago. I went for double lung heart shot on all of them and haven' t had a problem yet except for my one mishap. Deer hunting is my passion it is a year around thing for me and it bothers me when I hear stupid comments or someone disrespecting or abusing the sport I love so much.

Great quote. I agree 100% with this statment.

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http://www.trophygallery.com/trophygalleryphotos/thumbnail/2993.jpg

If this picture took this is a sholder shot for sure. The deer dropped in its tracks BUT it stayed alive and paralized from the neck down You know what had to be done next and it suc#s. By the way the shot was a mistake I was shooting about 120 yards and was a few inches high and right.

Tried the image this time

Its there but hard to see the blood hole in the sholder. how do you xfer larger pics Hay Moderator can you help???

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

I have a question. Anybody out there who regularly uses neck shots and has done it for over 30 years without ever having one deer have to have a second shot? On the other hand, how many out there that have hunted many years (I have hunted for over 30 years) that have had a neck shot deer get up and run off?

I bet you that the second group outnumbers the first over 10 to 1!

Can you say adrenaline rush or " buck fever" . Guess that couldn' t ever affect the " experts" and cause them to miss a 3" target under field conditions. Nah.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

I' ve never, in all my time spent in the woods, seen a lung-shot deer run more than 80 yards. And that' s a lot of deer. The lungs/heart/liver/spine/shoulder area is huge, allowing for last-second problems (deer spooking, getting hit by a falling tree branch, thin foliage I didn' t see, etc) to happen, and the deer still get really dead really fast.

Absolutely a no-brain decision.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

zrexpilot,

You' ll notice I said bullet selection and sometimes caliber can result in a poor result when aiming at the shoulder and that it should be a factor in your decision about where the best (highest %) place to shoot. I appologize to step on your nerve about a 243 but used it as a smaller caliber with a Nosler Ballistic Tip (NBT) bullet to illistrate a point of not the best choice to punch through the shoulder. Not a dig on the choice of caliber or bullet just an example!

To the point about making me look silly with my 7 mag...well it is all opinion but since I am using my 7 rem mag for deer, moose and elk I would pick it over your favorite 243 any day of the week.[8D]

Let me clarify what I shot I think works best. It is right behind the showing shoulder a little above midline on the body and through to the opposite shoulder. What you' ll have is a realitively unobstructed path through both lungs and break out the opposite shoulder. In many cases this will drop the deer to the ground and never have him get up, although some cases they will lunge forward and make it a few yards...either way it puts blood on the dirt and you' ll usually see or hear that deer pile up very quickly. In this case the proper bullet in whatever caliber you feel confident with;) will work very nicely. This shot can be accomplished on a straight broadside once the nearest leg clears (the exact shot I take for black bears with my bow) or on a slight quarter away. A heavy quarter way you need to aim further back in the rib cage...just draw your line in your mind and send the bullet home. While this shot works very well a rib in and rib out works just as well, boils down to preference and experience.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

ive done both......none of my deer went over 50yds....one i blew a shoulder out and the lungs....nothing but mush.....he made it 50 yds down a mountain tumbling the whole way.....ran into a tree..shook it off.....ran into a boulder....hes history now....but a double lunged deer with a highpowerd rifle isnt going far at all....and the blood trail is sick.....but then again i use ballistic tips or hollow points and they explode and do thier job....i busted my bucks shoulders....both of them....he made it about 40 yards ...only using his back legs....with his head in the snow the whole way....it was kinda sick to watch.....ill stick with a good double lunger and have em flip over on the spot or a head shot....dont know where the neck kill zone is or id do that.....

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

For the best results of getting your deer it has to be behind the front shoulder. I dont shoot for the neck mainly cause I dont trust that the deer isnt going to move. I may need to track some but hey I was taught how to track when I was little. As one person said the shoulder may or may not bring them down on the spot. You will probably get the vital if the bullet isnt deflected some ungodly place. I have been hunting 30 plus yrs now and I like the clean kill myself. Oh and for the Ohio comments I have heard. Well I also hunt in WV with my rifle and I can tell you that I love my rifle but for a really big hole its my 16 guage for me. Especially hunting small woodplots. Rifle in Ohio is just stupid and dangerous. My opinion is all that is.

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Thats not true at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! I' ve seen a buck walk under me with an arrow sticking through his neck.NEVER AIM FOR THE NECK!!!!!!!!!!! VITALS IS WHERE YOU AIM.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Well theres been some good points made on both sides. I for one like to take deer in the neck and hogs in the head. I cant take a deer in the head at 200 plus yds if I want too. But thats me and a few others here. 200 yds is not that big a thing, I can group around an in. at 200 yds. If you are not that good of a shot and will admit it then I wouldnt suggest shots like this. The heart or double lung shot is a for sure thing. If you hit him there with any high powered rifle he is going down. He might run a little ways but he wont go far, he is a dead deer running no doubt. Its just that I fancy myself to be an excellent shot and the gratitude I recieve from dropping a deer in his tracks at short or long distances is something I guess I cant explain. I' m not saying I dont shoot deer in the vitals but if I have a good rest and I' m not fevering out, I' ll go for the neck or head. I took two beautiful deer this year with shots to the neck, an 8 pointer and a 10, at distances of about 80 yds. I did this from a prone postion with no rest on both shots.

Ihave shot many animals in the neck and never have had one run or need a second shot, but thats just me.

Something else that no one has mentioned, have any of you heard that a deer that has been stressed during death will result in poorer tasting meat as upposed to one that has been killed instantly. I dont know if this is true, but I heard this all along through my younger days of deer hunting.
Oh heres a pic of the 10 pointer I took with a shot to the neck, on the 12 of november ' 03

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A deer shot in the vitals will be no different for table fair than a deer shot in the neck. However if you gut shoot one that can be a different story but more so due to meat contact with the stomach contents vs longer time to expire. Deer stress tell me when hunting season and rut is on what deer isn' t stressed, regardless of how they fall;). Wives tail just like a running deer will be gamey...ok it is game and some has a more pronounced taste than others it ain' t the result of how it was killed but the care after the kill in most cases[:o]

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

A deer that bleeds out will taste better than a deer that doesn' t. A heart/lung shot will allow good bleeding every time. A head shot? Don' t think so. Of course, the heart will continue to beat for several minutes after the deer is dead, so you can cut his throat to let him bleed.

I refuse to condemn anyone who shoots at something other than the heart lung. However, I will say this: If I were the latest gold metal shooter in the olympics, it would be irresponsible for ME to ever take a head shot at a deer at 200 yards. The deer part that moves the most and the fastest is the head, and a " miss" of the brain doesn' t equal a " missed" deer always, it could mean a broken jaw deer. With a head shot, you could actually Hit the point in space you were aiming for and still miss the brain due to a last second movement of the head. I wouldn' t want that on my conscience.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Shoulder for me. No or very little tracking ever involved. I like that.

Brian

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Double lung is the most effective. The only deer i' ve ever lost was a neck shot doe, she fell in her tracks ,layed there for ten minutes, and as i was climbing down from my stand, sure that she was dead, she got up and ran, leaving no blood trail except for a few drops. It makes me sick every time i think about it. Last Dec. i took a nice 8 pointer(the biggest deer i' ve ever killed) with a heart/lung shot(my usual preference) and he ran about 50 yards with shreded vital organs but left a massive trail. The farthest i ever trailed a deer that was hit in lungs or heart was maybe 85 yards, a small price to pay for guaranteed good eatin' .

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

I have a friend who went on a guided hunt on a high dollar ranch. The guide said if a trophy walks out and he called the shot to shoot right through the middle of the guts. I dont agree, but the guide has to deal with all sorts of shooters, some good some bad and he felt this was a higher percentage shot. I guess the fact that the meat was ruined was second to a rack pushing 169 net. That and the guide gets a better tip from a kill than a miss. When I shoot at a good sized buck I aim for the lungs. A deer seldom runs more than 30 yards with a 30-06 round through the wind sacks, and usually flips over like he got hit by a sledge hammer. When it comes to does, kick the stand and put one in the neck or head when she stares.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Shoot something big enough (Caliber) to take out the lungs and they dont go far at all, and you dont ruin your meat.

For all the fans of the little ones though, those small calibers on a big deer sometimes do good to take out 1 shoulder, and like stated before no wheels = no movement, but 1 wheel will take you on a heck of a tracking job.

My 2 cents is on large bodied deer shoot .264 cal and up

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Well, I rifle hunt with a 300 win mag with 165gr ballistic tip handloads. Ive never had a deer take a step after getting hit with it. Right behind the shoulder and they drop on the spot and no meat is ruined. As for hunting in a slug or muzzleloader area or season, Id still go for the lungs, unless tracking conditions werent good, then maybe the shoulders.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

I' m sorry but idotic remarks like this pissme off. It dont take a magnum to punch through an animal. It takes the right bullet selection. My good friend shoots a .300 win mag and I showed him up with my .243. We took some hogs one weekend, he took two at a distance of 40 and 60 yds, one in the neck and one in the vitals and both shots failed to pass through, this coming from his.300mag. I took the one below at a distance of 240 yds, I was aiming for his ear and hit just below that ,right in the first vertabrae of the neck shattering it and blowing straight through and dropping himlike a ton of bricks. My son pictured here also took a large spike that weighed in at 140lbs on the same sendero this hog was taken but the next morning. The distance was 190yds. He hit it straight through the front shoulders shatterring both bones and going clean through leaving a blood trail a blind man could follow for 40 yds. I would have preferred himto hit behind the shoulders but thats where he hit, Either way my friend was using the no good for nothing 150 gr.corelocks and I was using Hornady ammo in 100 gr. Please dont tell me I need a magnum. Let me post some veloctys of deer rifles at 300 yds.
308 2000 fps
30-06 2200 fps
270 2200
.243 2400
.300 2300
.7 mag 2500
Either one of these calibers are excellent for deer
Penetration has nothing to do with the diameter of a bullet ,or if magnum is printed on the barrell either. LOL !

I have never ever wounded a deer shot with one of my many high powered rifles, never. I cant say that about my bow though, wish I could.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Two years ago I shot a 6 point at 10 yards with 12 guage slugs. I took the shoulder shot, that thing took off like I never hit him found him 70 yards later. When I took it home and cleaned it both front shoulders where destroyed [:o] My question is how did this buck run like there was no tommorrow with 2 shoulders of busted bone and mush.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Schuyl, often guys will think they shot a deer in the pins just due to the shoulder mess they incure, when in fact they only ripped through the meat and missed bone completely. What I assume happened is you went through meat or even the lower scapula and yes it ruined a lot of meat through shock, bone & bullet fragments but his legs(bones) were actually aok, he more than likely tipped over due to you tearing up his lungs and as we all know some deer go 0 yards and others go 100 yards with a lung shot. They are tough/amazing animals, I shake my head at what they will endure basically dead on their feet that adraline kicks in and they go till everything finally goes dark! Just a guess but if the pins are removed(broken) I have never seen a deer make it more than a lunge or 2, with one broken wheel they can muster a few more yards.

I attached a picture of the bone structure(hope it works lol) just to illistrate the point. You' ll notice that the scapula drops down into the rib cage marginally and then the bone V notchs forward on the body. Of course we have seen how big a shoulder looks when skinned but the fact remains that is all muscle and the bones are a lot smaller and future forward and up than we may think.

BTW, this isn' t to infer you or anyone doesn' t know this just an add on to this discussion. Maybe you can add more detail to let us know what was destroyed and we can all learn from your experience.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

Definitly a double-lung.Shoulder shot will ruin quite a bit of meat and you need to make a decent effort to get as much use out of the animal as possible. Also, if you are to lazy to track a deer for 50 yards or less, how do you plan on walking to your stand. It is basically the same thing.

RE: Shoulder or Double lung
 

The issue I believe they are refering to isn' t that they are too lazy to track a deer 50 yards, it' s that if a deer runs 50 yards there is a chance another hunter will shoot the deer again and claim it as thiers. This has happened to me before.

I' ve never had a deer run, or be alive when I got to it when I shot it through the shoulders. Maybe it was these small Georgia deer, but I never had a problem with it. Obviously this isn' t a good shot to take on a deer that isn' t perfectly broadside, in that case I aim for the lungs or heart.