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-   -   Rifled barreled shotgun vs Muzzleloader? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/424454-rifled-barreled-shotgun-vs-muzzleloader.html)

mikescooling 11-13-2020 01:57 PM

Rifled barreled shotgun vs Muzzleloader?
 
I'm restricted to Shotguns and muzzleloaders for deer season, buth throw 2" groups at a hundred yards. What one would you pick and why?

flyinlowe 11-13-2020 02:57 PM

Not sure what kind of ML you are shooting but I have an older Encore .50 cal and it is a tack driver at 100 yards. From time to time at the range I will go back to 200 yards just to do it. The furthers I have ever shot a deer with it was 178 yards. I grew up with shotguns and switched to the Encore about 15 years ago just because it was so much more accurate and had about double the range. I hear there are some slugs out there now that reach out a lot further then the stuff I was shooting 15 years ago but I haven't messed with it. Indiana phased in rifles so I now only use the Encore during ML season. I would have to go back and check but I killed somewhere between 35-45 deer with it over the time I have hunted with it.
I typically hunt woods edges near open field and rarely hunt deep in the woods. If you are in thick stuff or in an area where you can't shoot over 100 yards I would go shotgun just for the ease of re loading, not cleaning as much etc. If you are in an area where you can have longer shots I would go ML all day, assuming you have a decent ML and a good scope. If you are not comfortable shooting your particular ML over 100 yards I would leave it at home.

mikescooling 11-13-2020 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by flyinlowe (Post 4383864)
Not sure what kind of ML you are shooting but I have an older Encore .50 cal and it is a tack driver at 100 yards. From time to time at the range I will go back to 200 yards just to do it. The furthers I have ever shot a deer with it was 178 yards. I grew up with shotguns and switched to the Encore about 15 years ago just because it was so much more accurate and had about double the range. I hear there are some slugs out there now that reach out a lot further then the stuff I was shooting 15 years ago but I haven't messed with it. Indiana phased in rifles so I now only use the Encore during ML season. I would have to go back and check but I killed somewhere between 35-45 deer with it over the time I have hunted with it.
I typically hunt woods edges near open field and rarely hunt deep in the woods. If you are in thick stuff or in an area where you can't shoot over 100 yards I would go shotgun just for the ease of re loading, not cleaning as much etc. If you are in an area where you can have longer shots I would go ML all day, assuming you have a decent ML and a good scope. If you are not comfortable shooting your particular ML over 100 yards I would leave it at home.

I'm shooting a T/C Omega z5 and it is a tack driver too. I'm in the woods and my longest shot is 90 yards. My shotgun is a Mossberg 500 with the rifled barrel, both guns are throwing Hrornady SST sabots, and making 2" groups from a vice rest/lead-sled/ randsomrest type holder at a hundred yards.

mrbb 11-13-2020 03:15 PM

this is maybe best answered with what do YOU like shooting more?
IMO< if me, I would go with the shotgun, for the simple reason being this, a faster second shot IF needed, NO smoke(then again you can use powders that don't smoke like black horn 209 or likes)
but a shotgun is easier to load, unload, and less cleaning needed!
BUT NOT all shotguns are the same quality when shooting slugs, some can be real tack drivers as well
I had a TC encore and hunted many states where its either a muzzleloader or a shotgun deal on deer, and have used both, I spent a LOT of money on some better shooting guns of both types and still prefer shooting the shotgun I have now for slugs( a custom built rem 11/87)
its got less recoil, shoots very well , loads unloads fast and easy
HOWEVER, I will agree, that there are better inlines and likes for longer shooting if that is your goal
some of the smokeless powder muzzleloaders come to mind here, or a custom long range one made to handle extra hot charges to reach farther out
but for me, when I hunted things, I wasn't trying to shoot far with things, minus at a range on paper where I did get out to 300 yards with both., again on paper and even a tad farther, but I still wouldn't take shots at deer past my ,
and mean " MY " comfort lever with either weapon past 150 yards!

others might feel differently, but for me the shotgun gets my vote
and keep in mind, there are some shotguns made for slugs that shoot VERY well when you find a load they like, bullet drop scopes to get you on target from 0-150+ yards too, JUST like there are better muzzleoaders and scopes for them
so really comes down to what YOU prefer!

Whitetailturkey01 11-13-2020 03:17 PM

Personally I'd choose the shotgun. Easier to clean. However the muzzleloader has some advantages.
1: There's not as many hunters in the woods during muzzleloader season which means less pressured deer.
2: Muzzleloader ammo is often in stock when shotgun ammo is not.
3: Muzzleloaders are more fun to shoot (in my opinion)
4: Cheaper ammo(especially when compared to sabot slugs for shotguns)
The only disadvantages for muzzleloader are
1: they take longer to clean
2: You can only fire one shot at a time compared to pump or semi auto shotguns. However it only takes one shot.
At least you can use muzzleloaders our county don't allow them. Archery and shotgun only

mikescooling 11-13-2020 03:31 PM

The muzzleloader is the one I enjoy shooting more (by a lot). I am using BlackHorne 209 powder, and Hornady SST sabots. I can shoot the muzzleloader as much as I want for the next 5 years and will not run out of powder or sabots. On the other hand, I have 20 rounds of Hornady SST 12 gauge sabot's shotgun shells and that is it! I'm not sure I can get any more, I need to save those for hunting. Yeah the shogun has the fire power edge. The shotgun ammo cost $2.50 per cartridge, the cost of shotgun sabots slugs alone make me not want to shoot it. I'm in IL and can only use shotgun or ML

Bocajnala 11-13-2020 03:35 PM

Where you hunting at Mike? Ohio used to be slug or muzzleloader only but now allows some rifles as well.

All things being equal the shotgun is the "better" choice for killing deer because it gives you a quicker second shot if needed. Hopefully you don't need it- but sometimes you do.

And before somebody says "I don't need it, I've never needed a second shot in 78 years of hunting.." that's great, congratulations. AND... Sometimes it's still needed.

​​​​​​I use a muzzleloader during muzzleloader season. Some people like to use a muzzleloader in gun season, and that's just fine too. They like to use it, like the extra challenge, it shoots better than anything else they own etc. Lots of possible reasons.

But if all other things are equal, the 'better' choice would be the shotgun.

-Jake

mikescooling 11-13-2020 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by Bocajnala (Post 4383871)
Where you hunting at Mike? Ohio used to be slug or muzzleloader only but now allows some rifles as well.

All things being equal the shotgun is the "better" choice for killing deer because it gives you a quicker second shot if needed. Hopefully you don't need it- but sometimes you do.

And before somebody says "I don't need it, I've never needed a second shot in 78 years of hunting.." that's great, congratulations. AND... Sometimes it's still needed.

​​​​​​I use a muzzleloader during muzzleloader season. Some people like to use a muzzleloader in gun season, and that's just fine too. They like to use it, like the extra challenge, it shoots better than anything else they own etc. Lots of possible reasons.

But if all other things are equal, the 'better' choice would be the shotgun.

-Jake

For the last 20 years I've had a deer camp in WI, but now I'm hunting Northern IL. I can see the shotgun allowing follow up shots being useful, better to tack them down, then to let them jump property lines./fences.

Bocajnala 11-13-2020 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by mikescooling (Post 4383873)
For the last 20 years I've had a deer camp in WI, but now I'm hunting Northern IL. I can see the shotgun allowing follow up shots being useful, better to tack them down, then to let them jump property lines./fences.

I wouldn't discourage you from using the muzzleloader though if that's what you enjoy.

I'll be using a .44 mag revolver for allot of my hunting this year. It's not the "best" by any means. But I enjoy the challenge.

Understand your tool and make your shot selections based on its capabilities and you will be fine!

-Jake

mrbb 11-13-2020 04:41 PM

well as I said, I think YOU have your answer based on what youy like to shoot more

But hunting and shooting are one of them things, you cannot just say, price or getting ammo, is a stand point, as , most hunters shooters will stock up ion ammo there guns like LONG before hunting season, and many will have more than one load.brand that there gun lies in case things are not out there,
I have rifles that like factory ammo , and I bought a few cases of what they like, won;t ever need to buy more ammo for just hunting
when I want to target practice I use other guns I like to shoot more
the average hunter doesn;'t honestly if there being honest fire a ton of ammo thru there hunting rifle set up's
YES some do, but most don't)
years of having a gun shop and talking to thousands of hunters and shooters has proven this to me time and time again!


one thing someone above forgot to mention about muzzleloaders over shotguns is, that MANY muzzleloader/black powder is highly corrosive!
so, that can be a BIG deal if your hunting in area's that have long seasons and your the type that leaves gun loaded(minus a primer or ignition charge)
NEXT add in the FACT that ALL powders in muzzleloaders can suffer from moisture issue's
that result in ignition issues
carrying in a COLD gun into a warm room can make condensation, as can the other way, is it a HUGE deal, NO< most don't have any issue's,
BUT it is a real issue that can and does happen , same with water down a bore(snow, rain or??)
that too can and does happen, and can be avoided with some bore cover!(I use electrical tape on ALL my hunting guns when hunting)
NEXT< accuracy in a muzzleloader/inline or?? can be effected by HOW you load it, be in a hurry, don't seat things the same and accuracy can be FAR off to just a little!
ADD in this si ALSO, possible(I know a guy that has a big toe where his thumb used to be , had a ram rod come back out when powder charged he dumped down bore and was seating a bullet ignited and sent rod out of bore and took his thumb off, was shooting muzzleloaders for almost 50 yrs too< so wasn't new to things,)

so, it is possible top have a a dangerous situation reloading too fast after a shot or if there are amber in a bore still (so,yes things can go wrong with a shotgun too, but not as likely when loading a pre loaded round into a chamber as to pouring powder down a bore is a different deal)
and muzzleloaders require you to carry more items with you a field IMO< forget somethings , more things involved, more/higher the odds of something going wrong from a failure to forgetting somethings at home,. or the truck or?? laws of odds come into play here LOL


and I am NOT bashing muzzleloaders, , have owned and shot many and killed my share of game with them problem free!
SO, Please don't think I am, bashing on them here nor am I trying to tell you what to use! or one is better than another! just pointing out some info on things!

but there are pro's and con's to both, its not as simple as saying one is better than the other
which again is why I stated, , the real question might be what do YOU Like shooting better!
and I think you know what and why it is what it is!




hunters_life 11-13-2020 06:02 PM

Im one of those that use a ML during rifle most of the time. I too am in Illinois. I mostly hunt with an old Renegade side lock percussion loaded up with my own conical bullets on top of Swiss. I do have a custom smokeless ML that will easily do the job out to 300+ yards but my old renegade and I have taken so many deer together I feel like Im cheating on her if I use anything else. I have several other side locks but she is my go to rifle.

mikescooling 11-13-2020 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by hunters_life (Post 4383877)
Im one of those that use a ML during rifle most of the time. I too am in Illinois. I mostly hunt with an old Renegade side lock percussion loaded up with my own conical bullets on top of Swiss. I do have a custom smokeless ML that will easily do the job out to 300+ yards but my old renegade and I have taken so many deer together I feel like Im cheating on her if I use anything else. I have several other side locks but she is my go to rifle.

I've had my ML for 15 years and it has always been "ON". if I change sabots the ML seems to shoot everything well (I love guns that do that). It has one the best single stage triggers of anything I own, and it's a crime I've never take a deer with it. The Mossberge 500 with the rifled barrel was just setup and sighted in like a week ago, I haven't had a chance to work with it much. It has one of the worst triggers of anything I own. Both of those guns need to kill a deer for the first time.

Father Forkhorn 11-13-2020 07:25 PM

My vote would be for the shotgun for reasons along these lines:.


Originally Posted by Bocajnala (Post 4383871)
Where you hunting at Mike? Ohio used to be slug or muzzleloader only but now allows some rifles as well.

All things being equal the shotgun is the "better" choice for killing deer because it gives you a quicker second shot if needed. Hopefully you don't need it- but sometimes you do.

And before somebody says "I don't need it, I've never needed a second shot in 78 years of hunting.." that's great, congratulations. AND... Sometimes it's still needed.

​​​​​​I use a muzzleloader during muzzleloader season. Some people like to use a muzzleloader in gun season, and that's just fine too. They like to use it, like the extra challenge, it shoots better than anything else they own etc. Lots of possible reasons.

But if all other things are equal, the 'better' choice would be the shotgun.

-Jake


Daveboone 11-15-2020 06:31 AM

Long standing hunters wisdom dictates to hunt with what you shoot the best. It is the first shot that counts, and where you put it. I always felt I could shoot my ML (with a scope) far more accurately than my shotgun...which I could shoot very well. And like you said, it is what you have the most ammo for.

t.shaffer 11-15-2020 08:40 AM

imo if i had to choose between a shotgun or muzzleloader in which 1 time in ohio it was shotgun muzzy or handgun.i choose the muzzleloader. but got involved with the handgun& used them allot. i justed enjoyed the muzzy better over the shotgun.but now in ohio we can use straightwalled cartridges & i've them since they were aloud. but this year i must use a handgun due to the port that in my right shoulder due to cancer which my last treatment is next week. but going back to your question use what you like the best

Whitetailturkey01 11-15-2020 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by mikescooling (Post 4383870)
The muzzleloader is the one I enjoy shooting more (by a lot). I am using BlackHorne 209 powder, and Hornady SST sabots. I can shoot the muzzleloader as much as I want for the next 5 years and will not run out of powder or sabots. On the other hand, I have 20 rounds of Hornady SST 12 gauge sabot's shotgun shells and that is it! I'm not sure I can get any more, I need to save those for hunting. Yeah the shogun has the fire power edge. The shotgun ammo cost $2.50 per cartridge, the cost of shotgun sabots slugs alone make me not want to shoot it. I'm in IL and can only use shotgun or ML

A good cheaper sabot slug ammo for shotguns would be the Federal Power Shok Sabot slugs. I bought a box of them at Cabelas for $8.50 per box. Pretty good cheaper alternative to SST, Accu tips, coppersolids, lightfields, etc..

ram2 11-18-2020 04:57 AM


Originally Posted by mikescooling (Post 4383870)
On the other hand, I have 20 rounds of Hornady SST 12 gauge sabot's shotgun shells and that is it! I'm not sure I can get any more

I have seen the Hornady SST sabot slugs in plentiful supply at Dunham's in Michigan.

TN Lone Wolf 11-18-2020 08:44 AM

I've considered this in the past. If I lived in a state that did not allow rifles for deer hunting, and if I wasn't a handgun hunter, I'd go with a muzzleloader over a slug gun. Besides the fact that it would allow me to hunt during muzzleloader seasons in addition to gun seasons, I've found modern inlines to be 1.5 to 1 MOA capable with a bullet/sabot/powder combination they like. With a 120 to 150 grain powder charge and the appropriate bullet, they've got more than enough power to kill a deer out to 300 yards if you can account for the drop.

dhasemann 11-18-2020 10:51 AM

I've used both and now prefer my ML. I have been able to get rifle level accuracy using BH209 and my CVA Optima (1" or better groups at 100). If I was just starting I would probably go with shotgun. I like to reload and messing with the ML using different powders, bullets, sabots etc, to get the best accuracy is fun to me. Its taken a few years of playing with bullet selection, sabot selection and powder selection to get the accuracy I wanted.

tankerchief 11-25-2020 03:57 PM

I'm going through the same debate here in NJ. I have had a lot of success with my Mossberg 500 shooting Remington sabots; but at $15.00 for 5; I'm about done. Muzzleloaders are cheaper to shoot and a just as efficient as slugs. It's just going to mean more time at the range playing with loads and projectiles......having a tough time finding a negative side to that. :wink:

excalibur43 11-27-2020 01:45 AM


Originally Posted by Bocajnala (Post 4383871)
Where you hunting at Mike? Ohio used to be slug or muzzleloader only but now allows some rifles as well.

All things being equal the shotgun is the "better" choice for killing deer because it gives you a quicker second shot if needed. Hopefully you don't need it- but sometimes you do.

And before somebody says "I don't need it, I've never needed a second shot in 78 years of hunting.." that's great, congratulations. AND... Sometimes it's still needed.

​​​​​​I use a muzzleloader during muzzleloader season. Some people like to use a muzzleloader in gun season, and that's just fine too. They like to use it, like the extra challenge, it shoots better than anything else they own etc. Lots of possible reasons.

But if all other things are equal, the 'better' choice would be the shotgun.

-Jake

I totally agree.

TuckerSchwab 12-04-2020 12:03 PM

I would say shotgun if you hunt at close range due to multiple shots, and muzzleloader at long range due to the trajectory and power of modern muzzleloaders.


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