Anti hunters vs hunters
03-02-2019, 04:34 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Most of the anti-hunter types have an idealistic view of nature and wildlife in particular. Sure humans share some commonalities with wildlife. But the commonalities only go so far and surely aren't shared values. The anti-hunters often interpose human values onto animals. Most animals if hungry enough would gladly eat you. Fear of mankind really isn't an instinct in many animals, it is a learned response, what I call a semi instinct, stronger in some animals of the same species, lower in others.
https://www.bbc.com/news/10251349
the anti-hunting types had great success in England after getting Fox hunts outlawed.
They are also fond of the mythical, so-called, balance in nature. It doesn't exist, nature is cycles of overpopulation, underpopulation, under predation and over predation, with starvation and disease thrown into the mix.
I surely don't believe in unnecessary suffering for any animal. I don't enjoy killing anything, I do enjoy the hunt, a good shot, and good eating. I am a predator to some degree, most humans are hunter-gatherers at the core, some lean a little more towards the hunter, some a little more towards the gatherer.
Seriously if an anti-hunter type was overrun with Rats they wouldn't hesitate to poison them. The Rats die over a period of days, bleeding from every orifice. The same anti would condemn me for picking the Rats off with a pellet gun.
A parable: There was a three-mile wide security zone near the old East German border, No hunting, restricted access, nobody wanted to accidentally start a confrontation there. An unintended consequence was wildlife overpopulation, Mange was rampant, the forest was dying from the Deer eating the bark off the trees. There were emaciated carcasses scattered all over the forest. Responsible game management could have kept the Deer numbers down, the herd healthy and supplied a wholesome meat product, natures bounty. It was a real eye-opener for me, I saw first hand just how cruel nature can be.
As far as that fish goes in the video, waste isn't right. On the other side, fish eat fish and if that fish was big enough it would eat the guy making the video.
The types who think that reintroducing apex predators into the mix will achieve some mythical balance are delusional. The Predators are going to need to be managed or they are going to become a threat or a nuisance. Trap them, shoot them or poison them.
https://www.bbc.com/news/10251349
They are also fond of the mythical, so-called, balance in nature. It doesn't exist, nature is cycles of overpopulation, underpopulation, under predation and over predation, with starvation and disease thrown into the mix.
I surely don't believe in unnecessary suffering for any animal. I don't enjoy killing anything, I do enjoy the hunt, a good shot, and good eating. I am a predator to some degree, most humans are hunter-gatherers at the core, some lean a little more towards the hunter, some a little more towards the gatherer.
Seriously if an anti-hunter type was overrun with Rats they wouldn't hesitate to poison them. The Rats die over a period of days, bleeding from every orifice. The same anti would condemn me for picking the Rats off with a pellet gun.
A parable: There was a three-mile wide security zone near the old East German border, No hunting, restricted access, nobody wanted to accidentally start a confrontation there. An unintended consequence was wildlife overpopulation, Mange was rampant, the forest was dying from the Deer eating the bark off the trees. There were emaciated carcasses scattered all over the forest. Responsible game management could have kept the Deer numbers down, the herd healthy and supplied a wholesome meat product, natures bounty. It was a real eye-opener for me, I saw first hand just how cruel nature can be.
As far as that fish goes in the video, waste isn't right. On the other side, fish eat fish and if that fish was big enough it would eat the guy making the video.
The types who think that reintroducing apex predators into the mix will achieve some mythical balance are delusional. The Predators are going to need to be managed or they are going to become a threat or a nuisance. Trap them, shoot them or poison them.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 03-02-2019 at 04:57 AM.
03-02-2019, 08:30 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
anti hunters are gaining ground and IMO< a lot has to do with some of the poor quality hunting shows on TV, that make SHOOTING a ?? such a party, and the hype and crap of how they seem to sell deer as being super human smart critters that hunters need thousands of dollars in TRICKS and equipment to outsmart em!
then add in they hunt out of almost house like enclosures, on primed lands growing things to HUNT and shoot(animals I mean)
I personally think the IMAGE of hunters today is so far off what it once was, and this is why so many come down on it today like they do
its almost as if you DON"T have PRIME land to hunt and thousands in equipment as they do on TV, and or videoing everything you do
WHY DO IT!
yrs back it was about HUNTING< no one cared HOW you did it, what gear you used, or even thought about videoing themselves doing it
when hunters yrs back told hunting stories, they were all about the hunt, the things they did and saw,
not about having used "S"X Model rifle, scope, ammo, bullet clothing, and blah blah blah!
they talked about the HUNT
and that made others(kids mostly) IMO
WANT to some day have them same things happen to them so they too could HUNT!
and there wasn't a huge list of things you HAD to have to be the COOL hunter as today, in order to do it!
ad in all the hype on LONG RANGE HUNTING, where animals have NO clue your going to kill em, due to being almost a mile; away
and well, anti hunter groups have a LOT of ammo being broadcast ed today IMO!
I personally think a LOT of hunters would be doing this sport a LOT more good if they just hunted and NOT tried to make money off hunting with making TV shows and personal videos on Youtube!
everyone doesn';t have to be your friend or for you to tell the world of the simple things you do folks!
if its about YOU enjoying hunting, why the need to tell everyone else??
I don't get it
I can sure understanding telling and showing off your success to YOUR PERSONAL friends, in personal ways, as in a private email if far away, or better yet in person.
but this need so many seem to have to tell the world everything thing they do, good or bad
is beyond my comprehension, and also IMO a huge negative way of sharing [personal events in one';s life!
not to mention, gives so many "Anti" what ever groups, so much ammo to use!
just my 2 cents
then add in they hunt out of almost house like enclosures, on primed lands growing things to HUNT and shoot(animals I mean)
I personally think the IMAGE of hunters today is so far off what it once was, and this is why so many come down on it today like they do
its almost as if you DON"T have PRIME land to hunt and thousands in equipment as they do on TV, and or videoing everything you do
WHY DO IT!
yrs back it was about HUNTING< no one cared HOW you did it, what gear you used, or even thought about videoing themselves doing it
when hunters yrs back told hunting stories, they were all about the hunt, the things they did and saw,
not about having used "S"X Model rifle, scope, ammo, bullet clothing, and blah blah blah!
they talked about the HUNT
and that made others(kids mostly) IMO
WANT to some day have them same things happen to them so they too could HUNT!
and there wasn't a huge list of things you HAD to have to be the COOL hunter as today, in order to do it!
ad in all the hype on LONG RANGE HUNTING, where animals have NO clue your going to kill em, due to being almost a mile; away
and well, anti hunter groups have a LOT of ammo being broadcast ed today IMO!
I personally think a LOT of hunters would be doing this sport a LOT more good if they just hunted and NOT tried to make money off hunting with making TV shows and personal videos on Youtube!
everyone doesn';t have to be your friend or for you to tell the world of the simple things you do folks!
if its about YOU enjoying hunting, why the need to tell everyone else??
I don't get it
I can sure understanding telling and showing off your success to YOUR PERSONAL friends, in personal ways, as in a private email if far away, or better yet in person.
but this need so many seem to have to tell the world everything thing they do, good or bad
is beyond my comprehension, and also IMO a huge negative way of sharing [personal events in one';s life!
not to mention, gives so many "Anti" what ever groups, so much ammo to use!
just my 2 cents
03-02-2019, 10:12 AM
#4
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
Kind of a mixed bag on YouTube videos, etc. On one hand, you can learn a lot of good stuff there, same as with the better shows. On the other hand, a lot of the shows seem to have the same type of yuk-yuk simpletons who don't represent the rest of us very well. Simply banning them is like any other suppression of free speech--we may not agree with the speech but suppressing it is a slippery slope. One of the other huge elephant in the room problems is the simplistic thinking of so many people who are willing to judge all hunters by the less than idealistic actions of a few. You can see that mental pygmy type of thinking in many other areas. Climate change, border control, illegal immigration, gun control, internet, etc. The end justifies the means and for most of those people, the end is a predetermined "feeling" that is devoid of any rational thinking.
03-03-2019, 06:13 AM
#5
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
MRBB makes some valid points, the internet makes hunting look far different that reality,
the vast majority of hunts end in no game taken,and the hunter just covering a lot of ground with zero results
little emphasis is placed on the enjoyment of nature, companionship and skills required, the planing strategy, etc.
but if your only reference is videos, you would get the idea all hunts result in game being killed.
obviously hours of video of a guy watching a wooded area, from a blind,
or slowly walking through timber, without results makes a less than exciting video.
personally I rather detest the hunts showing some guy shooting an elk at 800-1200 yards,
thats not hunting, it may be impressive to some guys but its NOT, at least to anyone I hunt with considered,... hunting!
the vast majority of hunts end in no game taken,and the hunter just covering a lot of ground with zero results
little emphasis is placed on the enjoyment of nature, companionship and skills required, the planing strategy, etc.
but if your only reference is videos, you would get the idea all hunts result in game being killed.
obviously hours of video of a guy watching a wooded area, from a blind,
or slowly walking through timber, without results makes a less than exciting video.
personally I rather detest the hunts showing some guy shooting an elk at 800-1200 yards,
thats not hunting, it may be impressive to some guys but its NOT, at least to anyone I hunt with considered,... hunting!
Last edited by hardcastonly; 03-03-2019 at 06:17 AM.
03-03-2019, 09:24 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,952
anti hunters are gaining ground and IMO< a lot has to do with some of the poor quality hunting shows on TV, that make SHOOTING a ?? such a party, and the hype and crap of how they seem to sell deer as being super human smart critters that hunters need thousands of dollars in TRICKS and equipment to outsmart em!
then add in they hunt out of almost house like enclosures, on primed lands growing things to HUNT and shoot(animals I mean)
I personally think the IMAGE of hunters today is so far off what it once was, and this is why so many come down on it today like they do
its almost as if you DON"T have PRIME land to hunt and thousands in equipment as they do on TV, and or videoing everything you do
WHY DO IT!
yrs back it was about HUNTING< no one cared HOW you did it, what gear you used, or even thought about videoing themselves doing it
when hunters yrs back told hunting stories, they were all about the hunt, the things they did and saw,
not about having used "S"X Model rifle, scope, ammo, bullet clothing, and blah blah blah!
they talked about the HUNT
and that made others(kids mostly) IMO
WANT to some day have them same things happen to them so they too could HUNT!
and there wasn't a huge list of things you HAD to have to be the COOL hunter as today, in order to do it!
ad in all the hype on LONG RANGE HUNTING, where animals have NO clue your going to kill em, due to being almost a mile; away
and well, anti hunter groups have a LOT of ammo being broadcast ed today IMO!
I personally think a LOT of hunters would be doing this sport a LOT more good if they just hunted and NOT tried to make money off hunting with making TV shows and personal videos on Youtube!
everyone doesn';t have to be your friend or for you to tell the world of the simple things you do folks!
if its about YOU enjoying hunting, why the need to tell everyone else??
I don't get it
I can sure understanding telling and showing off your success to YOUR PERSONAL friends, in personal ways, as in a private email if far away, or better yet in person.
but this need so many seem to have to tell the world everything thing they do, good or bad
is beyond my comprehension, and also IMO a huge negative way of sharing [personal events in one';s life!
not to mention, gives so many "Anti" what ever groups, so much ammo to use!
just my 2 cents
then add in they hunt out of almost house like enclosures, on primed lands growing things to HUNT and shoot(animals I mean)
I personally think the IMAGE of hunters today is so far off what it once was, and this is why so many come down on it today like they do
its almost as if you DON"T have PRIME land to hunt and thousands in equipment as they do on TV, and or videoing everything you do
WHY DO IT!
yrs back it was about HUNTING< no one cared HOW you did it, what gear you used, or even thought about videoing themselves doing it
when hunters yrs back told hunting stories, they were all about the hunt, the things they did and saw,
not about having used "S"X Model rifle, scope, ammo, bullet clothing, and blah blah blah!
they talked about the HUNT
and that made others(kids mostly) IMO
WANT to some day have them same things happen to them so they too could HUNT!
and there wasn't a huge list of things you HAD to have to be the COOL hunter as today, in order to do it!
ad in all the hype on LONG RANGE HUNTING, where animals have NO clue your going to kill em, due to being almost a mile; away
and well, anti hunter groups have a LOT of ammo being broadcast ed today IMO!
I personally think a LOT of hunters would be doing this sport a LOT more good if they just hunted and NOT tried to make money off hunting with making TV shows and personal videos on Youtube!
everyone doesn';t have to be your friend or for you to tell the world of the simple things you do folks!
if its about YOU enjoying hunting, why the need to tell everyone else??
I don't get it
I can sure understanding telling and showing off your success to YOUR PERSONAL friends, in personal ways, as in a private email if far away, or better yet in person.
but this need so many seem to have to tell the world everything thing they do, good or bad
is beyond my comprehension, and also IMO a huge negative way of sharing [personal events in one';s life!
not to mention, gives so many "Anti" what ever groups, so much ammo to use!
just my 2 cents
What doesn't money ruin? Like Cal said, some guys are not doing us any favors when they post their activities for all to see. I'm old school and don't talk or post many pics about fish and game I've taken. Some go to the taxidermist and all go to the freezer.
The anti's are motivated more by emotion than science? But what is the guy who spends a lot of money to get a large set of antlers motivated by? I think it's emotions as well. Look at what I myself just posted. Don't you think I shared that with a certain amount of pride? I did.
We are all of us under the microscope and rather then go underground lets focus on doing our sport proud. I'll admit to being a big fan of fur on the tailgate pics. But pictures of a proud and smiling hunter with his game posed in a dignified manner is really what we should be aiming for when we share.
That's my point zero-two.
03-03-2019, 11:58 AM
#7
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,382
You're bringing up some interesting points Mickey. I don't think I've ever seen an anti position that is based on real science. Like their commercials, it's an emotional appeal. And I would agree that the guy who spends a lot of money to get a large set of antlers can certainly be motivated by emotion. But conflating those 2 as though they are equal due to emotion being involved is a disservice to logic as well as misstating the intent of both groups.
The antis are seeking to impose their beliefs (based upon their emotions) upon others (hunters). The antis have already made their personal choice not to hunt trophy or just meat as is their prerogative. But the antis then seek to impose their will upon others which is not okay. They are judging others' behavior as somehow being immoral or wrong based simply upon their emotions or feelings.
The trophy hunter (although the antis are admittedly against all hunting) may have a certain degree of emotion (or pride) invested in harvesting a trophy animal. Almost all trophy hunters, however, are also putting meat in their freezer like you as it would be illegal to do otherwise. But the main difference in the trophy hunter versus any anti-hunter is that the trophy hunter has simply made a judgement about his/her own activity of trophy hunting and has not in any way attempted to force their decision upon others.
That is one of the biggest problems with today's society in that so many people want to judge others instead of worrying about their own lives (this isn't directed at you personally Mickey). Anti-hunters want to take away hunters' rights to hunt. Anti-gunners want to take away gun owners' right to own guns. AOC wants to take away cows' rights to have flatulence.
I'm sure you can come back at me with a list of liberal topics where you believe conservatives are taking away rights from libs. Abortion, illegal immigration, etc. The bottom line is nobody wants other people imposing their values and beliefs (or emotions) upon our own lives. Perhaps one of the greatest things in our country is that each of us is free to make our own decisions and not have our lives controlled by somebody else. That doesn't really exist anywhere else in the world, despite all of the medias' BS.
I agree with everything else you posted Mickey but wanted to dig a little deeper as it's fun to discuss this stuff with grownups.
The antis are seeking to impose their beliefs (based upon their emotions) upon others (hunters). The antis have already made their personal choice not to hunt trophy or just meat as is their prerogative. But the antis then seek to impose their will upon others which is not okay. They are judging others' behavior as somehow being immoral or wrong based simply upon their emotions or feelings.
The trophy hunter (although the antis are admittedly against all hunting) may have a certain degree of emotion (or pride) invested in harvesting a trophy animal. Almost all trophy hunters, however, are also putting meat in their freezer like you as it would be illegal to do otherwise. But the main difference in the trophy hunter versus any anti-hunter is that the trophy hunter has simply made a judgement about his/her own activity of trophy hunting and has not in any way attempted to force their decision upon others.
That is one of the biggest problems with today's society in that so many people want to judge others instead of worrying about their own lives (this isn't directed at you personally Mickey). Anti-hunters want to take away hunters' rights to hunt. Anti-gunners want to take away gun owners' right to own guns. AOC wants to take away cows' rights to have flatulence.
I'm sure you can come back at me with a list of liberal topics where you believe conservatives are taking away rights from libs. Abortion, illegal immigration, etc. The bottom line is nobody wants other people imposing their values and beliefs (or emotions) upon our own lives. Perhaps one of the greatest things in our country is that each of us is free to make our own decisions and not have our lives controlled by somebody else. That doesn't really exist anywhere else in the world, despite all of the medias' BS.
I agree with everything else you posted Mickey but wanted to dig a little deeper as it's fun to discuss this stuff with grownups.
03-03-2019, 02:38 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
You're bringing up some interesting points Mickey. I don't think I've ever seen an anti position that is based on real science. Like their commercials, it's an emotional appeal. And I would agree that the guy who spends a lot of money to get a large set of antlers can certainly be motivated by emotion. But conflating those 2 as though they are equal due to emotion being involved is a disservice to logic as well as misstating the intent of both groups.
The antis are seeking to impose their beliefs (based upon their emotions) upon others (hunters). The antis have already made their personal choice not to hunt trophy or just meat as is their prerogative. But the antis then seek to impose their will upon others which is not okay. They are judging others' behavior as somehow being immoral or wrong based simply upon their emotions or feelings.
The trophy hunter (although the antis are admittedly against all hunting) may have a certain degree of emotion (or pride) invested in harvesting a trophy animal. Almost all trophy hunters, however, are also putting meat in their freezer like you as it would be illegal to do otherwise. But the main difference in the trophy hunter versus any anti-hunter is that the trophy hunter has simply made a judgement about his/her own activity of trophy hunting and has not in any way attempted to force their decision upon others.
That is one of the biggest problems with today's society in that so many people want to judge others instead of worrying about their own lives (this isn't directed at you personally Mickey). Anti-hunters want to take away hunters' rights to hunt. Anti-gunners want to take away gun owners' right to own guns. AOC wants to take away cows' rights to have flatulence.
I'm sure you can come back at me with a list of liberal topics where you believe conservatives are taking away rights from libs. Abortion, illegal immigration, etc. The bottom line is nobody wants other people imposing their values and beliefs (or emotions) upon our own lives. Perhaps one of the greatest things in our country is that each of us is free to make our own decisions and not have our lives controlled by somebody else. That doesn't really exist anywhere else in the world, despite all of the medias' BS.
I agree with everything else you posted Mickey but wanted to dig a little deeper as it's fun to discuss this stuff with grownups.
The antis are seeking to impose their beliefs (based upon their emotions) upon others (hunters). The antis have already made their personal choice not to hunt trophy or just meat as is their prerogative. But the antis then seek to impose their will upon others which is not okay. They are judging others' behavior as somehow being immoral or wrong based simply upon their emotions or feelings.
The trophy hunter (although the antis are admittedly against all hunting) may have a certain degree of emotion (or pride) invested in harvesting a trophy animal. Almost all trophy hunters, however, are also putting meat in their freezer like you as it would be illegal to do otherwise. But the main difference in the trophy hunter versus any anti-hunter is that the trophy hunter has simply made a judgement about his/her own activity of trophy hunting and has not in any way attempted to force their decision upon others.
That is one of the biggest problems with today's society in that so many people want to judge others instead of worrying about their own lives (this isn't directed at you personally Mickey). Anti-hunters want to take away hunters' rights to hunt. Anti-gunners want to take away gun owners' right to own guns. AOC wants to take away cows' rights to have flatulence.
I'm sure you can come back at me with a list of liberal topics where you believe conservatives are taking away rights from libs. Abortion, illegal immigration, etc. The bottom line is nobody wants other people imposing their values and beliefs (or emotions) upon our own lives. Perhaps one of the greatest things in our country is that each of us is free to make our own decisions and not have our lives controlled by somebody else. That doesn't really exist anywhere else in the world, despite all of the medias' BS.
I agree with everything else you posted Mickey but wanted to dig a little deeper as it's fun to discuss this stuff with grownups.
and I also highly agree its nice to have conversations on topics without any need to name call or other wise stir the pot,!
I truly feel sad so many today just cannot do this, too much need or??
some sure seem have to THINK they are better than others ?
03-04-2019, 03:59 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,952