Top shelf ammo for hunting deer with a bolt action .223
10-14-2018, 06:04 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
just because something is marketed as something doesn't mean its any good at it?
wouldn;t be the fiorst time a marketing add ran something and ended up not being so great when it gets into folks hands
and as for you other post above
I never really stated either gun was inaccurate, I stated, MOST MILITARY AMMO is NOT and stand by this, I have sold a few MILLION rounds of it and shot hundreds of thousands of rounds of it over the yrs and NOT exaggerating these having
having had belt fed full autos, I ran thru a LOT of ammo, and that is what a LOT of Military surplus like ammo is, CHEAP AMMO< for shooting, NOT winning matches or being used for hunting
THE OP< yes bought the gun asked for ammo, and I GAVE honest advice
" STICK to GOOD heavy grain bullets designed for DEER in .223"
and see what one's your GUN likes!
THE OP< TOOK the GUN BACK to desaler too, and then SWAPPED It for a second gun
SO< the first advice on the gun NOT being that great a deer rifle caliber, said by about everyone
rang thru, and he THEN went and got a second SUB Caliber IMO for deer, again due to a, VERY Piss Poor selection of deer hunting ammo, VERY few stores will stock any and its been said and known (if one reads up) that most of it doesn;t work well in MOST 7.62x39 rifles, they just don't seem to group very well in most of them
SO< it ends up NOT being a great caliber in a deer rifle, due to life gets a LOT harder than needed to find ammo and then find ammo the gun will shoot well
I too can go the rests of my life killing most things with small caliber rifles or even hand guns, as I am a rather decent hunter and can get close to game and PICK my shots and I have a TON of above average training and shooting skills!
BUT this is NOT about me or you, and we BOTH have NO clue what the OP's shooting or hunting skills are!
SO< my advice here stands and it was never about bashing or hating on the OP< I was just saying IF he managed to take ONE gun back, maybe before he shoots this one TAKE it back as well and try for a more user friendly gun that will save him a lot of headache on TRYING to find ammo the gun likes and or just FINDING ammo at ANY local gun shop that is in a DEER hunting bullet for this NEW to him caliber!
ALL calibers pretty much CAN kill a deer, from BB guns up if things all go right, but that never makes them GREAT deer hunting calibers
as for the example of a BOW being used to kill bears(NOT by you but another poster here)
YES they sure can, and before we had bows I am sure they werer killed with other things too
BUT as time goes forward there are better tools to kill Bears with
those that hunt bears with a BOW< have a or SHOULD have a lot of practice and experience before doing so, and would KNOW more about what there doing, BEFORE DOING SO< and I doubt anyone that plans to hunt bears with a bow, asks questions AFTER Buying ANY BOW, say one in a low poundage, and than asked what head should I use ?? MOST bow hunters dig deeper into Before BUYING, due to the higher ricks of hunting bears with a bow
can it happen AFTER buying YES it sure can, but I will bet 9 out of 10 times a bow hunter know's more before buying and has a plan in place with what all is needed before they buy a bow to hunt bears with it!
archery is all about shot placement due to it doesn't have shock value as a bullet can have( bullets can some times only need to be NEAR vitals, Broad heads HAVE to HIT vitals's, that is the difference!
again to the OP< I am NOT bashing on you, just offering INFORMATION I know and from experiences I have had on BOTH the .223 and 7.62x39 calibers
buth CAN kill deer for sure, but there are a Lot of WAY better calibers for deer hunting, and if again, recoil is a issue, there are MANY great deer calibers that also have LOW recoil too!
if I was you I would be back at that dealer working out a different deal again!
there is no WIN to using these two calibers for deer hunting, as even GOOD ammo will cost a LOT more than many other calibers will, so its a added expense even down the road
unless you have a special desire to use these calibers, its just not good logic to use them IMO!
MY 2 cents and sorry if this offends you, I don;t mean it that way at all!'
NOR to anyone one else hetr!
wouldn;t be the fiorst time a marketing add ran something and ended up not being so great when it gets into folks hands
and as for you other post above
I never really stated either gun was inaccurate, I stated, MOST MILITARY AMMO is NOT and stand by this, I have sold a few MILLION rounds of it and shot hundreds of thousands of rounds of it over the yrs and NOT exaggerating these having
having had belt fed full autos, I ran thru a LOT of ammo, and that is what a LOT of Military surplus like ammo is, CHEAP AMMO< for shooting, NOT winning matches or being used for hunting
THE OP< yes bought the gun asked for ammo, and I GAVE honest advice
" STICK to GOOD heavy grain bullets designed for DEER in .223"
and see what one's your GUN likes!
THE OP< TOOK the GUN BACK to desaler too, and then SWAPPED It for a second gun
SO< the first advice on the gun NOT being that great a deer rifle caliber, said by about everyone
rang thru, and he THEN went and got a second SUB Caliber IMO for deer, again due to a, VERY Piss Poor selection of deer hunting ammo, VERY few stores will stock any and its been said and known (if one reads up) that most of it doesn;t work well in MOST 7.62x39 rifles, they just don't seem to group very well in most of them
SO< it ends up NOT being a great caliber in a deer rifle, due to life gets a LOT harder than needed to find ammo and then find ammo the gun will shoot well
I too can go the rests of my life killing most things with small caliber rifles or even hand guns, as I am a rather decent hunter and can get close to game and PICK my shots and I have a TON of above average training and shooting skills!
BUT this is NOT about me or you, and we BOTH have NO clue what the OP's shooting or hunting skills are!
SO< my advice here stands and it was never about bashing or hating on the OP< I was just saying IF he managed to take ONE gun back, maybe before he shoots this one TAKE it back as well and try for a more user friendly gun that will save him a lot of headache on TRYING to find ammo the gun likes and or just FINDING ammo at ANY local gun shop that is in a DEER hunting bullet for this NEW to him caliber!
ALL calibers pretty much CAN kill a deer, from BB guns up if things all go right, but that never makes them GREAT deer hunting calibers
as for the example of a BOW being used to kill bears(NOT by you but another poster here)
YES they sure can, and before we had bows I am sure they werer killed with other things too
BUT as time goes forward there are better tools to kill Bears with
those that hunt bears with a BOW< have a or SHOULD have a lot of practice and experience before doing so, and would KNOW more about what there doing, BEFORE DOING SO< and I doubt anyone that plans to hunt bears with a bow, asks questions AFTER Buying ANY BOW, say one in a low poundage, and than asked what head should I use ?? MOST bow hunters dig deeper into Before BUYING, due to the higher ricks of hunting bears with a bow
can it happen AFTER buying YES it sure can, but I will bet 9 out of 10 times a bow hunter know's more before buying and has a plan in place with what all is needed before they buy a bow to hunt bears with it!
archery is all about shot placement due to it doesn't have shock value as a bullet can have( bullets can some times only need to be NEAR vitals, Broad heads HAVE to HIT vitals's, that is the difference!
again to the OP< I am NOT bashing on you, just offering INFORMATION I know and from experiences I have had on BOTH the .223 and 7.62x39 calibers
buth CAN kill deer for sure, but there are a Lot of WAY better calibers for deer hunting, and if again, recoil is a issue, there are MANY great deer calibers that also have LOW recoil too!
if I was you I would be back at that dealer working out a different deal again!
there is no WIN to using these two calibers for deer hunting, as even GOOD ammo will cost a LOT more than many other calibers will, so its a added expense even down the road
unless you have a special desire to use these calibers, its just not good logic to use them IMO!
MY 2 cents and sorry if this offends you, I don;t mean it that way at all!'
NOR to anyone one else hetr!
10-14-2018, 07:28 AM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
I was in a heated debate on another forum, wth folks who felt 223 was the way to go. When I told them I know no one using it, and how 45-70 has made a big come back, they pooped themselves and called me every name in the book.
I do get lung hand heart shots will kill anything. Lots of premium 223 ammo these days that will expand past what people were using 30 years ago. But I hunt heavy bush, where it is can be hard to track, and limited shooting.
I do get lung hand heart shots will kill anything. Lots of premium 223 ammo these days that will expand past what people were using 30 years ago. But I hunt heavy bush, where it is can be hard to track, and limited shooting.
10-14-2018, 12:43 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
there BOTH military calibers and MOST all ammo stocked in MOST gun stores is of the military type of ammo NOT hunting ammo, and IF hunting ammo, most of it in 223 is for varmints and NOT deer! and as stated also, and NOT just by me, lots of the 7.62x39 ammo even in deer calibers has NOT been proven to be that great in factory rifles
and don't believe the OP is into reloading, as if he was , odds are he might already know a lot of the things he is asking here and wouldn;t be asking about factory ammo at all.??
I am again ONLY providing information based on a LOT of yrs of experience in the shooting world!
NOT judging!
and just so YOU know, its been proven a many time over,
larger caliber bullets deflect just as much off BRUSH as smaller bullets, there is NO bullet /caliber MADE to shoot thru brush
clear sot are what ALL should be trying for period!
10-15-2018, 07:01 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
All im saying is the S&B 7.62x39 SP ammo is its cheap and tests ive seen show it performs as designed. Ballistics are pretty close to a 30-30Win and its reloadable brass with the correct .311 bullets. Thudy Thudy has killed a mountain of deer. If is was going to use a premium bullet it would probably be the Federal Fusion SP ammo. I think MidwayUSA had it on sale cheaper than even Rem or Win ammo. Reviews with chrono reading show its also some good stuff and it also uses the .311 bullets. ATK owns both Speer and Federal. Im pretty certain they are using the similar Hot-Cor and DeepCurl method of bullet construction.
Checkout the Fusion reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tzer-boat-tail
S&B
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...oint-box-of-20
I probably would not waste my $$ on stuff loaded with bullets like Barnes. Its super expensive and i dont see the performance gain IF ANY to be worth the extra cost. Maybe with another caliber but not in this situation. Its rather a shame you could not get the CZ 527 in the 6.5 Grendel. Its not that im a huge fan of the Grendel but i really like 6.5s and mini actions. The 2 would pair up very well and im sure you would love it for deer hunting.
Checkout the Fusion reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tzer-boat-tail
S&B
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...oint-box-of-20
I probably would not waste my $$ on stuff loaded with bullets like Barnes. Its super expensive and i dont see the performance gain IF ANY to be worth the extra cost. Maybe with another caliber but not in this situation. Its rather a shame you could not get the CZ 527 in the 6.5 Grendel. Its not that im a huge fan of the Grendel but i really like 6.5s and mini actions. The 2 would pair up very well and im sure you would love it for deer hunting.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 10-15-2018 at 07:18 AM.
10-15-2018, 07:20 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
All im saying is the S&B 7.62x39 SP ammo is its cheap and tests ive seen show it performs as designed. Ballistics are pretty close to a 30-30Win and its reloadable brass with the correct .311 bullets. Thudy Thudy has killed a mountain of deer. If is was going to use a premium bullet it would probably be the Federal Fusion SP ammo. I think MidwayUSA had it on sale cheaper than even Rem or Win ammo. Reviews with chrono reading show its also some fast stuff and it also uses the .311 bullets. ATK owns both Speer and Federal. Im pretty certain they are using the similar Hot-Cor and DeepCurl method of bullet construction.
Checkout the Fusion reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tzer-boat-tail
S&B
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...oint-box-of-20
I probably would not waste my $$ on stuff loaded with bullets like Barnes. Its super expensive and i dont see the performance gain IF ANY to be worth the extra cost. Maybe with another caliber but not in this situation. Its rather a shame you could not get the CZ 527 in the 6.5 Grendel. Its not that im a huge fan of the Grendel but i really like 6.5s and mini actions. The 2 would pair up very well and im sure you would love it for deer hunting.
Checkout the Fusion reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tzer-boat-tail
S&B
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/85...oint-box-of-20
I probably would not waste my $$ on stuff loaded with bullets like Barnes. Its super expensive and i dont see the performance gain IF ANY to be worth the extra cost. Maybe with another caliber but not in this situation. Its rather a shame you could not get the CZ 527 in the 6.5 Grendel. Its not that im a huge fan of the Grendel but i really like 6.5s and mini actions. The 2 would pair up very well and im sure you would love it for deer hunting.
but the facts are, FEW gun shops or stores carry much SP 7.62x39 ammo, its mostly all stocked up in full metal jackets CHEAP ammo(same with and .223 in a DEER hunting bullet)
THIS is my point!, NOT a most user friendly DEER hunting caliber!
and again I doubt the OP reloads or plans to or this topic wouldn't be about bets FACTORY AMMO at all!
there are just TONS Of better options out there period!
Ill even add an example
say a .243, tons of guns made in caliber from cheap to$$ as high as you wish to go, tons of factory ammo f om cheaper than the hunting end of 7.62x39, and better ballistic''s to boot, and its a LOW recoil caliber too boot! and a LOT of deer have been killed with it as well as larger animals, and again ammo for HUNTING can be had in about ANY gun shop your at!
just ONE example here !
AND CZ does make them in .243!
Last edited by mrbb; 10-15-2018 at 07:31 AM.
10-15-2018, 07:33 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
10-15-2018, 08:12 AM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Actually in a round about way he did ask. The topic started as 223 but then he took it back for a 7.62. They dont sell the same rifle in .243. No way in the world it will fit in a cz527 "mini Mauser" action. 223, 7.62x39 and 6.5 are the only options offered that are even remotely suitable for hunting deer. I cant find the 300 Blackout ive seen listed sooooo.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-223-rem/
I dont seem to have any problems finding 7.62x39 soft points. Even Cabelas stock them. https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100190&CQ_ref=~caliber-7_p62x39mm&CQ_ztype=GNU
Your objections are rather moot at this point since that is the rifle he has. Debating it is no longer helping the OP its simply just arguing.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-223-rem/
I dont seem to have any problems finding 7.62x39 soft points. Even Cabelas stock them. https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100190&CQ_ref=~caliber-7_p62x39mm&CQ_ztype=GNU
Your objections are rather moot at this point since that is the rifle he has. Debating it is no longer helping the OP its simply just arguing.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 10-15-2018 at 08:23 AM.
10-15-2018, 08:37 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
Actually in a round about way he did ask. The topic started as 223 but then he took it back for a 7.62. They dont sell the same rifle in .243. No way in the world it will fit in a cz527 "mini Mauser" action. 223, 7.62x39 and 6.5 are the only options offered that are even remotely suitable for hunting deer. I cant find the 300 Blackout ive seen listed sooooo.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-223-rem/
I dont seem to have any problems finding 7.62x39 soft points. Even Cabelas stock them. https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100190&CQ_ref=~caliber-7_p62x39mm&CQ_ztype=GNU
Your objections are rather moot at this point since that is the rifle he has. Debating it is no longer helping the OP its simply just arguing.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-223-rem/
I dont seem to have any problems finding 7.62x39 soft points. Even Cabelas stock them. https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100190&CQ_ref=~caliber-7_p62x39mm&CQ_ztype=GNU
Your objections are rather moot at this point since that is the rifle he has. Debating it is no longer helping the OP its simply just arguing.
well again, SO because YOU think he asked in a round about way, it makes it so? you can read into things but when others do it seems to ???
(and NOT meaning you specifically, just those that read INTO THINGS in general, over what the WORDS on the screen actually type out andsay!)
when someone calls me out stating the OP didn;t ask about"X" and they too added something that was NOT asked about just as well, seems silly!
making the original topic polluted with OFF topic information, s this one has been leaves the door OPEN IMO for other info!
SO< all I have done is add information,(from my first post here to now)
I have NEVER stated either caliber was NOT capable of killing deer, I have also NEVER said any ONLINE ammo store wouldn;t have ammo, I said GUN SHOP< as is your LOCAL gun shop!
NEXT I said CZ makes a .243, I did NOT specify a MODEL, NOR say the model he has comes in it!
NOTHING I have said is WRONG!
The OP already exchanged the gun ONCE< so never know if its possible to do so again??ALSO a point I made!, and heck, even at a slight loss now in $$ might pay off down the road with having a more USER FRIENDLY rifle to own i n the future, more wider selection of ammo to chose from and or easier to get PERIOD!
THIS is my point not sure why so many seem to struggle to under stand this and wish to debate GOOD honest information
keep trying to make me look bad here, if you feel the need, but Nothing I have said is wrong! or was meant as anything but honest help and good advice!
I never bashed the OP NOR the calibers period!
just stated facts about BOTH of them for hunting deer and being USER friendly to do so!
NOT everyone buys ammo ONLINE!
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-557-sporter-short-action/
Last edited by mrbb; 10-15-2018 at 08:39 AM.