High Fence vs. Free Range Hunts
 

Now I know this will probably create some controversy and I know it's been a topic discussed previously, but I thought I throw out some food for thought.

First of all, I don't have the money or the interest in a high fence hunt but some people do or high fence operations wouldn't be around. They made them illegal a few years ago here in Montana.

I'd never thought too much about them and like most people my impression was that it would be like shooting a prize bull in a pasture, but I happened to be on a caribou hunt a few years back with a wonderful old fellow who had hunted all over the world. He'd hunted caribou 9 times and his trophy room was 16,000 square feet (to give you an idea of his experience). He was 80 years old at the time and over the course of the hunt we visited a lot about the different hunts he'd been on and somehow or another the topic of high fence hunts came up. He said he'd been on a few and here's what he said he'd learned about whitetail High Fence Hunts. Keep in mind that they are not all the same, but this is what he told me about the ones he's researched.

In the high fence operations he researched, the fawns are separated at birth. The doe fawns are bottle fed and raised up so that they are relatively tame so they can be handled more easily. All are artificially inseminated. The buck fawns are put in separate pastures based on age....1.5 year old are together, 2.5 year olds are kept together, etc. As soon as the antlers are fully developed they are sawed off the first two years so that the bucks do not injure each other fighting, etc.. Human contact with the bucks is kept at a minimum so that they do not become tame. When they are 3 years old, they are released into the preserve several months before they are hunted. Within a couple of weeks, they revert back to how a buck in the wild behaves.

By fall, they act like any normal buck in the wild. Many are never seen during daylight hours and many are not even caught on trail cams. Some preserves use corn, etc. to lure the bucks out but others do not.

Some high fence operations are several thousand acres in size, while others are much smaller. One operation in Texas has 30 miles of fencing to maintain. Deer do escape... Many in the south have hogs and the hogs are continually rooting around and breaking the fences created holes were deer can escape also.

The gentleman who was telling me all of this said he hunted one high fence preserve for a specific buck they knew was on the property, but he never laid eyes on it.

As we all know, these hunts are not cheap. Most charge according to the size of the buck killed but some do not... Some charge a flat rate and you can shoot any size buck you find... Prices range from about $7,500 on up...

So, the question is why would anyone pay to hunt a high fence preserve? Other than the gentleman I have mentioned, I've never talked with anyone who has hunted a high fence preserve, so I'm not sure. This gentleman said he was curious about how a preserve hunt would be compared to a free range hunt. He obviously had the money!!! He said it was fun...much different than he'd envisioned it would be. I asked him if he'd done others and he said a couple, but he much preferred hunting free range game. When I met him he had 16 hunts scheduled around the world that year..5 of them in Manitoba. After our Caribou hunt we dropped him off at another camp for moose and then he was hunting whitetails there later in the fall and geese and he had a spring bear hunt planned!!!! What a life!!!

Most hunters frown on High Fence operations, but my guess is that 99,9% have never even visited one say nothing about hunt on one. Leasing and buying land specifically for hunting has become the big thing these days.... Is leasing or buying land, planting food plots in the middle specifically designed to grow large bucks and keep them on the property really that much different than a high fence operation? Bucks are basically grown up until they are fully mature until they are on the "Hit List". I'm just tossing that out there for food for thought...

Hunters these days travel all over the country, Canada, etc. in search of a large buck. Everyone seems to want to kill something bigger, and bigger, and bigger......Probably the reason high fence operations exist. I know a guy back east who traveled to Saskatchewan 4 times looking for "the big one" and never shot anything bigger than a 130" buck and he probably spent well over $20,000 by the time it was all said and done. Did he have fun trying? I really don't think so.. He sat in a ground blind from daylight till dark every day and froze his butt off... Not my idea of fun!!!

For me, I'll continue to hunt right here around home. I may travel to another state or to Canada to hunt deer, but probably not. We have good bucks, but generally speaking we don't have huge bucks. I don't have much interest in hunting Muleys because quite frankly they are no challenge at all... Many will disagree, but I see thousands of them each year and they just aren't anything that I find to be much of a challenge. For those who choose to hunt a high fence area, lease land and plant food plots, etc., go for it...... Any kind of hunting is better than watching tv, playing video games, etc. It's all about getting outdoors and enjoying ourselves and NOT judging each other.

Time for my daily walk.... Have a good one!!! :patriot:

My opinion is if the animal is in captivity you are farming not hunting. I don't have a problem with farming or hunting but they are 2 different things.

As Ive said many times...Ive raised,killed and ate many animals in captivity. I don't have a problem with it I just never called it hunting.

Your friend sounds like an elitist, so many hunts each year, he is not a hunter, he is a shooter, with all of these hunts lined up how in the world could he possibly scout out his own stands and deer ?????? on my one and only outfitted hunt in arctic circle quebec for caribou, I met a gentleman from Michigan, who stated he has hunted with rifle only for years, , shot much game. after we took out allotted caribou we had a couple of days to enjoy the country so we walked and explored, he followed me like a puppy, I finally asked him why, he said he would be lost with somebody guiding him, he had never hunted alone, or hunted animals on his own. He was I believe in his early 60,s He is another shooter, not a hunter !

For white tail I don't think I would do it but for some of the other game if I had the money I wouldn't mind. I've always wanted to get after a black buck, axis or fallow deer and don't have near the money to travel the world looking for them. The only thing is I would still want it to be a challenge and not just a "canned" hunt.

Now as far as those muleys go we may need to talk....lol Down here in Oklahoma I have seen 1 buck way off on private land and maybe 6 doe at different times in my 24 years of hunting lol. A muley is right up at the top of my bucket list along with a bear.

Y'all do as you wish. High fence hunting is legal but I'm not gonna do it. I'd rather eat tag stew than allow an animal from a high fence to pollute my game pole. As always, feel free to disagree. It is, after all, a free country.

You can get black buck, axis and fallow on free range low fence hunts all over TX. Not all of them are behind high fences.

To each his own. If it’s legal and your ok with it, then go for it. As a rule, high fence hunting is not for me. I like the chase and the ability for the critter to elude me, which is what usually happens. I know this can happen behind a fence but it doesn’t seem the same.

With that said, I really want to take a Bison. Free range doesn’t seem to be an option as I don’t think I would ever draw a tag. Such a dilemma . . .

I would much rather do that than a high fence. Truthfully I just can't get myself to put the money down on either but if I had spare cash I may have to look into them free ranging down there.

My hunting is the converse of hunting all over the map for specific animals. I hunt a relatively small area. I have access to 3300 hectares, I hunt maybe a third of that.

My thing is trying to know all the game in my chosen area. I've even seen the same Mouse multiple mornings. I know most of the Deer on my lease, have most of the Fox dens mapped, know where the Badgers are. Where the Ducks nest, where the Rabbit warrens are, where the Hare and Pheasant hang out. I even know where many wild plants are likely to be found. Micro instead of macro.

I figure I have some of the knowledge of a hunter gatherer. Though it is likely much of the knowledge has been lost over the centuries.

I also hunt the edges and leave the game in the center alone. Kind of like early settlers would hunt, away from the cabin so there was game close when/if the hard times hit.

I've hunted high fence, here it was more a social gathering than a hunt. A bunch of high rollers and aristocracy would hunt high fence. On one side their time is valuable and they just don't have the time to invest in doing it another way. It is almost like theater, they dress the dress, follow the old traditions and brag a little about their successes on the hunt. One thing I did notice, most of them are what I call city dead, their senses aren't attuned to their surroundings. They often have game underfoot and don't see it, hear it or sense it. Many times I've waited, waited and waited until whatever is almost out of range trying to give the other guy the shot before I'd shoot.

finding any bull Elk worth shooting on public land ,takes a great deal of research and actually hunting the area you selected too hunt, this usually takes several days of intense scouting, a good deal of knowledge of the terrain, knowledge of the basics of how elk react to hunting pressure, accurate terrain maps, and your ability too shoot accurately from field positions, you obviously have options,where youll hunt what you consider a trophy, and licence costs, guide fees, etc.
Ill point out that theres free range public land hunts in national forest and BLM land and there are private land hunts on open ranches with private land , if youve ever hunted on public land youll have probably looked up the success ratios and found that its generally in the 15%-20% range in most open to the public areas.
professionally guided hunts on private ranches, or areas that require a lottery/draw tag can easily , boost the odds to over 50%
a few years ago one of the guys in our elk hunting club who had only taken one elk, in 4 years of hunting public land decided he wanted to take a guided hunt that guaranteed he would get at least one good chance at a decent 4x4 or better elk.
they charged him at the time about $4K for a 3 day hunt, with a personal guide.
he drove out with a buddy too Montana from Florida, only after he arrived did he find out that guided hunt was on a large ranch and the elk were in a 6000 plus acre enclosed area. (at no time was the fact the hunted area was fenced disclosed during several sales and contract discussions.......since he had already paid in full up front he decided to hunt, the guy he drove out with demanded a refund but the guy running the operation would only return 75% of his down payment ( he had sent 50% down and was to pay off the rest on arrival, ) as that was outlined several times in the contract
he stated he only saw the fence around one part of the area in the three days of hunting and he shot a 4x5 bull that while not a record was impressive.
he felt he had gotten his moneys worth, his partner stayed at the ranch and was totally pissed off, but did not throw a fit like some people I'm sure would have.
I think the lesson learned here is that before you book a hunt youll want to ask pointed detailed questions and ask for 5-6 previous hunters phone numbers to check out their opinions. and yes read the contract carefully

Some of these places are 4,5 6 thousand acres or more. There is little difference with that size property than a non fenced area because you would not cover that amount of land on a hunt even if not fenced.

I very much disagree. Being able to 100% choose which animals get shot is a huge difference.

Its probably still tough to target a specific animal but you have 100% control of the age structure. I'd have giant bucks everywhere if I had complete control of the age structure as apposed to hunting the few animals that have the instincts to allude hunters long enough to mature.

The deer can never go where you can't shoot them. Being able to allow every buck that nature doesn't kill mature is a pretty big deal.

I don't care if its 100,000 acres Its a huge difference. I'd kill 200+ inch deer every year behind a fence and it wouldn't matter how big the fence was.

I don't care for high fence hunting, but as said before it is legal. So that would make it a personal issue!
You see all the pictures in the deer rags with their "first kill!" 170+ Booners that we might never see in a lifetime of hunting. Most of these kids are hunting in a stand that daddy didn't build or set up, on property they've never set foot on before, and likely they were dropped off about 3 feet away from the stand! Daylight comes and boom! Hunts over!
Sadly, most of these kids will never learn about the outdoors, scouting, tracking, and camping!
Again, if it is legal, the choice is yours! Just don't try to pass it off as some giant "trophy," or try to to make out like you are Super-Hunter!

Not to argue but aren't a lot of the preserves in Africa high fence?

Keeping deer captive behind a fence is illegal here in Vt. The reason is simply to decrease the chance of CWD from coming into the state. Most releases of CWD throughout the country have followed a captive deer or elk facility. Personally...I wouldn't even consider hunting behind a fence. Like Rocky said there is hunting and farming. I do understand that nice beef ribeye I like so much comes after someone kills a beef behind a fence. They don't call that hunting and neither do I.

Very good points you make. The old fellow I met was obviously wealthy and perhaps just a shooter. In defense of him, he donated a ton of money in defense of hunting, he takes disabled youths (and adults) on hunts all at his expense, and every once of meat from the animals he kills is used. On the caribou hunt he gave me one of his caribou and donated the other to some Natives in the area. He was very humble and only talked about his adventures if asked. He hiked everywhere we went and when I shot my caribou he pitched in and grabbed a front quarter and carried it to the boat....

Isn't there an elk farm in Vermont? They carry CWD. I don't know about Fallow Deer and CWD, but there is a deer farm just outside of Middlebury with Fallow Deer.

Norway to exterminate 2000 Reindeer
 

They thought Reindeer didn't get CWD up until several moths ago when they found out they were wrong. This is the problem with prion diseases, they mutate and jump species.

Reindeer have not had an easy time recently. There are only about 600,000 left of them, down from 1.5 million in 2000 thanks to dwindling habitat due to climate change, and last August, 318 of those were struck by lightning in a single storm and killed.

And now, the government of Norway has decided to kill off (link in Norwegian) an entire herd of roughly 2,200 reindeer to stop the spread of a highly infectious fatal disease.

Since last March, Norwegian officials have been keeping an eye out for cases of chronic wasting disease (CWD). The disease, which causes the brains of animals in the deer family, including moose and reindeer, to slowly turn to mush. It spreads through chemicals called prions, although scientists are not sure how exactly.

Prions are misshapen proteins that can cause other proteins—like vital ones in the brain—to change their shape, too. They’re found in the waste, saliva, and infected brain matter of diseased animals, and can stick around for years in the environment. Sometimes, the CWD-causing prions can form spontaneously brains of older animals, but in these cases the prions aren’t contagious.

Lab tests on the brains or excretions of animals have to confirm the presence of these prions. However, it’s easy to miss in most cases because it’s a degenerative disease that kills animals over time. Its symptoms include general health problems, like losing weight or drooling excessively, which could happen for any number of reasons.

According to Science, in 2016 officials found prions from CWD in the brains of two moose and three reindeer. The moose, they believe, likely developed the illness as result of old age, in which case prions would only be found in the brain and couldn’t spread to other animals. However, the reindeer all lived in the same herd in Nordfjella, a rocky region in the middle of the country.

Discovering three cases of CWD in dead reindeer likely means others in the herd are already sick, and potentially spreading prions to others. Although there’s never been a case of humans getting sick from CWD, we can contract a similar prion disease found in cattle—mad cow disease—from eating contaminated meat. Even if there’s no threat to human health, authorities are concerned that CWD could spread to other species and even across the globe through shipments of undiagnosed animals, or even prions that hitch a ride on human travelers.

For now, Norwegian park rangers will patrol the borders of the herd’s habitat to quarantine them until they have all been shot by amateur hunters. Reindeer won’t be allowed to live in the area until 2022 to ensure any leftover priors from current reindeer waste have broken down. Hopefully, the deaths of these reindeer will prevent the deaths of thousands more later on.

Many very good points have been brought up here. Hunting is defined differently by different people. For the vast majority, a high fence operation isn't appealing or considered hunting. I personally would not be interested and if I ever did (not going to happen) I'd feel pretty foolish posting photos of a buck I killed.

Most all of the Red Stag you see killed in New Zealand are taken on High Fence hunts. Some are free range, but not many. I'd love to see New Zealand and hunt a Red Stag, but the cost, sitting on a plane for upteen hours, and not being able to bring the meat home is a deal breaker for me.

I'm still on the fence (no pun intended) on farms and ranches that plant food plots, keep everyone out except for family, close friends, etc. I realize that the deer aren't fenced in and can leave whenever they want to, but if they have all the food they need, the cover, and are not pressured why would they leave? In my mind this is not all that different than a high fence operation. But that's me.

With my hard earned money (the little that I have), if I spend money on a hunt it's going to be for something up north. I love the Canadian wilderness. I love the moose, caribou, etc. I'll never be able to afford a sheep hunt and quite frankly, I'm too old to tackle those mountains but it would be the experience of a lifetime. I've been fortunate to hunt moose and caribou and both trips were fantastic.. In the meantime, I'll hunt the wonderful deer, elk, antelope, etc. we have right here in Montana.. :fighting0007:

Gonna have to disagree. Perhaps that would be the case if all you hunted was whitetails from a tree stand but if you are a still hunter or a spot and stalk guy then you'd be amazed how much ground you cover. It also depends on where you are hunting. A couple thousand acres in the northeast is a huge tract of land but out west that is just the back pasture.

Some are. But I've never hunted one. Like I said, to each his or her own.

There are no canned hunt facilities left. The state banned new ones but allowed the last 2 still running to to be grandfathered and since that time both went out of business so that is ended. I think there are a few elk ranches and fallow deer farms left but I don't think they are allowed to ship live animals either in or out of the state.

i sometimes feel the art of real deer hunting has been gone for years .. now it's more about how many cameras you can afford and how nice of a food plot you can afford .. sit in your shooting box and bammo .. great white hunter.. couldn't hunt a gorilla at the Atlanta zoo
--some still actually "hunt" but not a lot of us .. i'm not mad about it , I've just seen the changes over the last 50 years .. put a fence around it, so what

I get a chuckle reading the comments on Deer and Deer Hunting TV's YouTube videos. "Great job shooting your pet deer!" Stuff like that. Do they deserve the scorn? Who knows. Hunting pressured deer on National Forest is very, very different from hunting over a food plot in a high-fence "pet deer" preserve. Is it bad? I don't know!

That is largely true for the country of South Africa, but not most other countries. I have hunted a few countries on the African continent but I will not hunt in South Africa. Some of the SA properties are very large and it is very possible that guys hunt them and never see a fence or even realize that the property is fenced.

I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to hunting whitetails. It's gotten more than just a little bit crazy. Years ago you almost never saw a B&C score if you read an article in Outdoor life, Field and Stream, etc. (talking the 1950's and 1960's) unless it was a world record. The stories were all about the hunting experience. Those days are long gone, but that's life... Technology is a different topic, but I hear where you're coming from...

This thread has been surprisingly civil thus far....


I've ate plenty of animals that I raise. But I don't consider it hunting. Some of these areas are huge. You'd likely never realize you were in a fence other than the ability to be extremely selective on what gets shot.


-Jake

That's a good point about how hunting articles and, to a point, hunting demands have changed.

Keep applying for that tag, if it's meant to be, it will be.
on another note, my feeling is if you can no longer hunt the way you like or want to but can afford the "canned" hunt and still have the desire, go for it you probably earned it.
Personally besides my own little property here in PA I hunt public land in the other states I'm lucky enough to visit (most of my friends say I'm just cheap.....and that's probably 25% true when it comes to hunting private land) but I like the challenge.

Until a couple of years ago I didn't realize that the Red Stag hunts in New Zealand were High Fence/Canned hunts. There are free range hunts there, but pretty much all of those monster stags are killed on High Fence Operations. From what I understand, New Zealand has very few game laws and even less enforcement. I'd thought about a trip to New Zealand as I've always wanted to see the country, meet the people, etc. but I'm not about to pay to kill a half tame animal. Plus I can't take the meat home from there!!!

I didn't know that either and have also wanted to hunt NZ some day and see some of the country. We used to have a NZ outfitter who posted on HuntingNet and was a good guy. Wonder if he's still around?

I've hunted ranches in Texas that were thousands of acres in size. These ranches were fenced but not what I would consider high fence hunting.

Most of the NZ operations on the Southern Island is high fence Calhunter but most are some fairly large areas that are fenced. The Northern Island has less high fencing because of the terrain. It has a lot more mountains or steep hills and valleys. Both islands have outside the fence free range as well.

That's good to know. NZ stays on the bucket list.

Ive got a buddy that guided and filmed for scent blocker. He took a group into the mountains in NZ to hunt red stag. When they got them up in the mountains they surprised him and the hunt was actually for him and he got to take a huge red stag.

From the pictures I can't imagine it was high fence as it was really vast and rugged landscape.