We stand hunt primarily, still hunt also. But we also do slow push drives every year. None of our guys ever shoot at running deer. The way we do it, 90% of the time the deer come trotting along and often stop. Not much different than if on a stand. We kill a good amount that way. If the deer is running, than its no different than if I'm in a stand and the deer comes running by... I have no shot, unless it stops where I have a good shot.

Hunters are funny... some are so very judgemental about others ways, weapons, etc. We're all on the same team regardless of how we choose to hunt. Whether someone prefers to still hunt, stand hunt, dog hunt, drive hunt... or use a compound, recurve, or crossbow... or Rifle, shotgun, handgun, muzzleloader... etc
I'm fine with it as long as its fair chase and they act responsibly.

Now high fence hunts, to me...that is a different story.

And even more are wounded and get away. I lived in VA where they do a lot of dog hunting and a lot of those fools have no problem shooting at fleeing deer at ranges of 100 yards or more. When you talk to them about poor shots like that they say "you never know when a pellet will get through" so they feel justified in just banging away. I took several deer in VA that carried buckshot that didn't get to the vitals.

I did a lot of buckshot hunting in VA on military bases and it is worthless at anything over 40-45 yards but dog hunters, in my personal experience, don't care and they happily toss 4 or 5 rounds down range at fleeing deer and many of those deer that are hit are not recovered. I've personally found the carcasses rotting away with buckshot wounds in the guts.

Just because something is a tradition does not mean that all those that participate do so in an ethical manner. I used to hunt Cavalier WMA area in VA which specifically prohibits dog hunting. It sits right on the NC line and a bunch of yahoos from a dog hunting club in NC used to drive up to the state line and turn their dogs loose knowing they would go into the WMA. Anyone hunting the WMA could not shoot a deer if dogs ran it but those clowns would stay 10 ft into NC and blaze away at them when the dogs ran them across the state line. Since the hunters and the dogs were from NC and the hunters never actually set foot in VA the warden was powerless because in VA it is illegal to shoot a deer dog no matter what state it begins the chase in.

Sorry but the experience soured me forever on running deer with dogs.

Well thats the thing......we all think we should be less judgemental.....unless we think "that is a different story"

I encountered a particular club member decades ago and his group had recently ran dogs through. I was inquiring with him how far he was willing to shoot at running deer. He was adamant that 70 to 100 yard shots were acceptable. Also, if the deer was wounded, another in his group would likely get the chance to finish it, so why not shoot?. Various hunters have told me of using buckshot at those extended ranges.
I couldn't agree w/you more on the 40-45 yd. maximum. People that shoot beyond that are a sad testament.

In regards to "respecting the animal", I've never understood that. I hope I never command enough respect to get shot.

What about people that shoot running coyotes at 70 yards? sad testament?

Exactly right. Never heard anyone upset or offended about tactics used to kill coyotes. Not sure what the difference is with deer, but there seems to be one.

Stick around and you may learn what it means if you hunt long enough, but from your final statement I have my doubts!

This is kind of a quagmire, if you think about it. Some people are adamant about not shooting at running or moving animals, not shooting too far away from animals when you don't reasonably expect to hit them or anything else that isn't deemed sporting or fair. There's nothing wrong with that but where does that "self imposed rule"apply for wing shooting birds, rabbits on the run, etc.?

Most hunters would say limit yourself to taking shots where you have a reasonably high probability of killing the animal quickly and humanely. For some people, that might mean a running shot at closer ranges. For others, it might mean shots beyond 300 yards (it isn't for most) whereas for some people, shooting beyond 50 yards is dangerous for everybody except the animal. In some ways, I kind of think it depends upon the individual hunter.

There certainly is. I'm not criticizing anyone because I'm guilty as well, I just think its interesting.

For example I definitely give deer more consideration than a coyote

If I see a coyote and have a gun I'm prolly gonna shoot at it.

How many hunter shoot ducks and geese and just throw them in a ditch? I don't because I like them but most people don't but I will shoot an old nasty coyote and leave him laying....Ive seen me do it.

When you start taking coyotes home to eat them you'll notice the difference.

So you respect them based on flavor?

Yeah, what about it? The topic is deer(drives). Always somebody that can't stay w/the subject.

Let's all disrespect a regal game animal by taking poke and hope shots that do nothing but cause the animal to suffer injury and slow death and give the anti's fuel to use against hunting. I'm sure everyone here supports that. Sarcasm off.

Interesting, indeed.
It's a common thing each must address and we can discuss the matter without it leading to finger pointing at some point. Regardless of the conversation for our own enlightenment, each person will still make their own personal decisions-hopefully w/respect to the laws.

Everyone has different standards and as long as what they do is legal I don't have any issues. My own standards are that I eat whatever I kill. If I don't want to eat it I don't shoot at it. I understand that others don't see it that way and that is OK with me.

And just what figures on a nationwide basis can you produce that backs up your claim that most hunters waste the meat of waterfowl they shoot? Because I don't know anyone that does that. Waste of game meat is a serious offense in every state and if you personally know a lot of people that waste the resource and you don't report them then you are in essence part of the problem.

Flags can u back up ur ealrier statement about "even more are wounded than killed" with some figures? I would appreciate that. Also, you should be reporting all those ppl wounding animals if you are aware of them.

Most of the duck hunters I know eat their kills. I am aware of problems when the snow geese are shot. I guess they aren't as edible as the Canadians or so I am told, and am aware our fish and wildlife was looking at a case where a bunch were found dumped in a ditch near the road. Flags is right wanton waste is a serious offense almost everywhere.

Well I didn't say "most hunters waste the meat of waterfowl they shoot" so no I can't back it up but I'm not naive it happens a lot.... Specially snow geese.

That is not what I said at all.

I think what I said is very much on topic. I think you are just mad because I made a good point.

Your high lighted comment is laughable. If you think I'm mad, you're thoroughly confused.
Now back to the topic, deer drives, moving deer and now, effectiveness of buckshot on deer-not 'yotes- at extended ranges.

Right, of course.

I didn't advocate wanton waste at all. I just pointed out that I think its interesting that a lot of people pick and choose which animals deserve more respect than others.

Just an observation.

The only animal I waste are coyotes and even then I only waste the sick and mangy ones but I will take more questionable shots at coyotes than deer and I certainly don't put the effort into tracking a hit coyote that I do a deer.

Oh and crow also.....every once in awhile I shoot a crow.

I don't really waterfowl hunt but even on tv you see hunters regularly just start shooting with total disregard to whether they will get a quick kill shot or not. I like duck though so people are usually more than happy to bring them to me.

Like I said I'm not judging anybody......just an interesting observation.

Ive got some farmer buddies that look at deer about the same way I look at mice in my house. They drive deer not because they love to hunt but because the deer cost them thousands of dollars a year and like a mouse in my pantry they want them dead.

perspective is my point.

Like Rock, I have seen many "hunters" that have less respect for certain animals than others. I probably have been guilty of the same when it comes to yotes and hogs. Yet even with yotes and hogs, I do my dead level best to make the best shot possible for a clean quick kill. I practice as often as possible for running and long distance shots. I use the absolute best equipment available to me. And I do my best to stay within my abilities. I try to respect ALL life, even those of invasive and destructive species, and in that respect I do my utmost to deliver a quick and as humane as possible kill.

Woodenb14, respect for life and respect for the NEED to take that life in the most efficient and painless way possible is what it's about. Hunters need to take that respect to heart when going after ANY wildlife. There isn't much on this planet that angers me more than when I hear some idiot say "oh well, crows gotta eat too" when they look for a downed animal for a short time and are too damn lazy to do a full and complete search. That is 100% disrespect. There are times I will let a hog lay where I dropped it but it's for other reasons that laziness. That dead hog will many times attract a whole sounder in later that night or the next day and that is what we want! More hogs in to take off the property. Even with pest animals like Groundhogs and P-Dogs I do my utmost to be 100% accurate out of respect for life. I don't like it when ANY animal suffers and I do my dead level best not to be one to cause that suffering.

We are predators by nature. Each and every one of us. It's in our DNA. As is cruelty like every other predator on this planet. What is supposedly different between us and the other predators on this planet is out ability to think and feel about the animals we take. A python has no care about the suffering it is causing an animal by slowly suffocating it to death. We are SUPPOSED to have that care. Some don't. That is the sad part.

Nope, just basing it on actual field experience. But then you can also go on youtube and see lots of yahoos tossing buckshot at fleeing deer and proudly yelling "winged that one!" As to wounding, show me a state law anywhere that shows that to be illegal. Unethical yes, illegal no. Can you do that? But purposefully wasting game after it has been harvested is a violation in every state isn't it?

So exactly what is your point again?

Good job addressing respect for the animals we hunt Super! It is a shame that they aren't any more than a target to some folks.

Yep; good job sh54 and I hope he takes what you mentioned to heart!

Of course I also want a good quick clean kill, but I would just be lying if I said I don't take shots at yotes I wouldn't even consider on a deer and I'd also be lying if I said I put as much effort into recovering a yote as I do a deer. I shoot the yotes because they eat a lot of animals I want to eat myself so in return I have a hard time looking down my nose at those that do the same with deer that are eating thousands of dollars worth of corn and beans they grow to support their families even though I personally don't agree with it.

I grew up doing drives as well as stalk hunting and stand/blind hunting, I have shot more stalk hunting than I have on drives and prefer that to drives but like stated a couple times in here drives to me is just a good group of guys hunting together and having a good time. Not so much productive, but more of a thing you do with your buddies towards the end of season.